*clears throat *inhales

…

It is what it is.

Thanks for sharing. I love it.

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Damn. Just recently I got banned in some community for playing the devils advocate… (Again)…

Reason: Flamebait and Agenda.

¯_(ツ)_/¯

No agenda, I am just enjoying discussions. And If I don’t manage to convince you, this means that I have reinforced your own opinions. And isn’t that a good thing from the other sides perspective?

Or you could design cities to have green in the first place by designing for better modes of transport than cars.

But there are no better modes of transport than cars. They are literally the most used vehicles on earth. This means they have topped every other form so far. The natural next step in the cars evolution is self driving electric vehicles. So cars will be used by multiple people, so there are less cars overall and those cars could be stored in large strategically well placed big parking lot buildings.

Cars take up a huge amount of space both while traveling and while not in use, instead of spending all that money and space on cars you can have public transit, cycling infrastructure, walking infrastructure, and greener cities.

I agree on cycling infrastructure and other forms of public transport. The more options people get, the better. But cars are irreplaceable. Car infrastructure is the most flexible we have. Ambulances, police, craftsmen, busses, taxis, you can easily transform them into pedestrian territory, or turn them into bike lanes. And as I claimed before, if the next 100 years bring us new technologies and self driving cars revolutionise public transport, then this infrastructure offers the option to increase green surfaces in cities.

What does that have to do with capitalism? All the other options aren’t for free either.

And that’s the take of the people without any knowledge of what they are rankling about.

Also bei Twitter scheint es echt chaotisch zuzugehen. Das empfinde ich ja auch so. Aber letztendlich wird sich das wohl auch noch fangen.

On the big parking spaces? Yea probably. But the smaller parking spaces along the roads? I don’t think that the place is big enough for housing.

Jaja Leute. Abwarten.

Ich halte deren Konzept für garnicht so doof.

Social media ist halt so oder so ein Haufen fragwürdigen Zeugs. Das alles zu moderieren zieht heftigst an den Werbeeinnahmen.

Ein Umstellen auf etwas vergleichbares wie Discord, also Subscription Modelle, garantieren Unabhängigkeit von Werbepartnern und zugleich geringere Moderationskosten.

Dass so eine Umstellung natürlich mit immensen Hürden verbunden ist, und dass das ordentlich holprig ist, ist klar. Aber dass Twitter jetzt untergehen würde, oder Reddit, das ist einfach nur Wunschdenken mancher Leute hier.

That’s why I actually like car infrastructure.

If one day. Self driving cars become reality, many people will be able to live without owning one themselves.

And then the places previously occupied by cars will ensure that there is room in cities for some green.

Ja. Es kommt früher oder später alles hierher.

Intercity is actually a mostly enjoyable experience, if there wasn’t the horrendous price.

Regional travel though is a bad experience. Maybe not as bad as in India, or other countries with their own problems, but for European standards, it’s pretty shitty.

( ͡° ʖ̯ ͡°) It looks like torture.

Some sick idea of a deranged kid. It has the same feeling as tying cans to a cats tail, as seen in some movie I cannot remember. Imagine someone tying helium balloons on a mice and letting it go. …

Anyway …

(☞ﾟヮﾟ)☞ I like it!

Whenever something doesn’t work, then everyone claims that it is underfounded.

Maybe it’s just too complex to work properly. One mistake always starts a chain reaction and due to the centralised organisation of train infrastructure, there are not many options to solve diverse issues.

The article you linked makes no mention of maintenance and infrastructure emissions. There’s just a single table that seems to be based on fuel emissions at the time of travel.

I cannot look everything up. Soooooo … trust me bro.

It’s also specific to existing rail infrastructure, which is fine, but for the purposes of argument and comparison, it would be ideal to compare the most efficient bus/roadway system with the most efficient rail system. Zero-emissions trains exist, yet somehow just maintaining the rail line would completely offset that according to your argument?

There also exist zero emission cars. So this argument doesn’t work so well. We are talking about real life applications. And that’s why it is absolutely reasonable to compare existing infrastructure. Germany has invested heavily into both, automobile infrastructure and Railroad infrastructure. So the comparison seems to be alright.

Asphalt is an oil product, yes, but it still needs to be processed and turned into asphalt. That also emits pollution. So does transporting it to the destination, and all the other environmental factors with building up a road surface.

And so does steel and concrete.

You can’t just hand wave that away “because we already made a ton of it”. That’s not how sustainability works. We’re explicitly trying to reduce our reliance on oil.

I can hand wave this off completely fine, since it would be technically possible to frac bitumen into synthesis gas as well. So asphalt is still bound carbon. And that’s alright that way.

You also seem to be ignoring that rail lasts orders of magnitude longer than asphalt, and don’t constantly have to be patched and repaired for pot holes.

This is wrong. They need to be ground down regularity, they need to be replaced regularity due to material fatigue, railroads need intense care - freed from plants regularity, much more frequent in fact than asphalt, due to its open structure. In Addition to rails, there is need for electrical wiring above the train. This wiring is also needed to replace regularity due to material fatigue, constant rubbing of the metals onto each other. Then we also have further infrastructure for people, so called train stations. Especially larger train stations must be heated in winter with immense amounts of gas and train stations made of glass in summer are in desperate need of cooling. You just have to take a look at the prices for a ride. If it compares financially, then it most likely compares in emissions as well.

Steel is also one of the most recycled materials on the planet. (Nearly 70% of all steel here in the US is recycled). Melting down old cars or whatever into new rail tracks uses significantly less energy than refining new metal.

While this is correct, it is still very inefficient to melt down steel and then clean it up to recreate the requested alloys. Asphalt on the other hand can be recycled much easier. It is in fact a thermoplastic material. It needs much lower melting temperatures and is not dependant on reductive agents.

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Asphalt is a byproduct of oil refinery. It’s literal main component is production waste. There is a ton of it.

Steel on the other hand must be produced in the so called blast furnace process. It’s the reduction of iron oxide with carbon monoxide and hydrogen gas. But the hydrogen is it added separately. It’s a byproduct of the process that reacts as well reductive towards iron oxide. You need to burn immense amounts of coal to create elemental iron.

And trails are equally time consuming and resources consuming with maintenance as asphalt streets are.

I don’t know what kind of source you want there. Do you need a link towards Wikipedia? Or can you find the production of iron and asphalt yourself?

For sure a car cannot compete with a trains emissions. But a diesel driven bus can. Here is a source. You might need a translator. It’s a German article. link to a german news agency. citing a study by the Umweltministerium (ministry for Environment)

I am in fact not spouting nonsense. I am merely stating the truth.

You are talking with a European. A German in fact.

And I was not talking about rail to every house, I was mentioning the absolute necessity for asphalt streets. And that this infrastructure is far more flexible and adaptive than all the alternatives. Something irreplaceable in fact.

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