4 pane comic of dolan on the left and spooderman on the right

pane 1 (dolan): cum join opensurce cummunity!
pane 2 (spooderman): shure! how joyn?
pane 3 (dolan): Here discord! (with discord logo)
pane 4 (spooderman with tears in eyes): y u do dis?

  • StarkZarn
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    9 months ago

    I’m not sure you understand what “objectively” actually means… Care to provide your data in support of your objective conclusion?

    • CliveRosfield@lemmy.world
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      9 months ago

      Sure.

      • FREE with zero maintenance or resources required on my end since day 1
      • All messages and uploads are saved and searchable to anyone who joins a discord server. Some of my servers are from 2016 and all 100k messages up to this day are still there with each and every file untouched whenever I search for something. Same thing if I join a new server.

      No other app has these two points along with the incredible amount of features and QoL Discord has. This is objectively true.

      • KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        9 months ago

        this is not explicitly true, moderation is still a labor requirement.

        Messages get deleted from bans, channels wipes cause problems, sometimes discord just decides people shouldnt exist anymore.

        • CliveRosfield@lemmy.world
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          9 months ago

          Moderation is a requirement with anything involving people so I don’t see that as a discord specific problem. If anything it’s easier than a forum since I don’t have to deal with spam bots myself for the most part.

          The channel wipe thing is fair. You’re right about that.

          • KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            9 months ago

            i dont see how it would be easier on discord, discord is literally known only for bot/hacked account issues. I’ve never seen a spam bot on a forum before.

            Plus nobody is likely to target a forum, everybody is targeting discord already. And on top of that the discord banning/automoderation isnt great, i’ve heard its getting better though.

            • CliveRosfield@lemmy.world
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              9 months ago

              I follow a niche community and the recent bans for their board is all spam bots even in 2024. I don’t want to put up with that nonsense and discord actively tries to curb that so the choice is easy.

              • KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                9 months ago

                idk you’d have to compare it between a few forums, and a few discord servers of the same size in order to figure it out.

                I’d still be surprised to see people actually botting forums. It really just doesn’t make any sense.

                  • KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                    9 months ago

                    you already said that, but like, what does it mean

                    What forum/s are we talking about? What discords are we talking about? What kind of botting are we talking about? Are the forums actively moderated? What’s the moderation experience like? Etc…

                    The big problem here is that discord is the only thing between you and managing your server, either they do it right, or they don’t (which is what they usually do) With a forum, you are the only person between the two, but you have full control over it You want to set up a basic entry gate to prevent bot accounts from sneaking through? Trivial. You want to set up message rate limiting? Trivial, you want to set up some clever detection and sequestering mechanism? Trivial.

                    With discord you’re either using bots, which suck, or you have to pay for, or you just pretend that it isn’t a problem and let humans deal with it.

      • 418teapot@lemmy.world
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        9 months ago

        Good for you, you have a short list of requirements out of a chat service and discord perfectly fills your niche. But different people have different requirements for chat, and they don’t align. And network effects force people who have differing requirements to use the service with the most users which sucks.

        For instance here are things that I require from any chat service that I use that discord completely falls flat at:

        • Ability to run it on my linux machine without using an electron client (npm is a huge mess of supply chain attacks and I refuse to run any software that is likely to contain dependencies from it)
        • Ability to run it on my AOSP phone which does not have any google play services installed
        • Ability to write software to back up messages without fear of a company changing their API and breaking my backup system
          • CliveRosfield@lemmy.world
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            9 months ago

            Just join a server, find your answer, and leave. Why is that so scary? You don’t even have to interact with anyone.

            • TechNom (nobody)@programming.dev
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              9 months ago

              That lazy culture is exactly why discord is bad for the job. I search for solutions first, instead of barging in with a question that may have been asked and resolved a thousand times before.

                • TechNom (nobody)@programming.dev
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                  9 months ago

                  I can’t understand how the people advocating for Discord in place of support forums can be so tone deaf about the core complaints others have about Discord.

                  Discord’s search feature is worthless to me and a huge section of others. The search results don’t show up on web searches. Web search indices are important because they aggregate information from many sources. Forums like Discourse don’t have that problem. With Discord, you instead have to install a shitty electron app and register an account just to do the above mentioned search. Sometimes, they even force you to give them your phone number. No - I don’t want to do that for every software problem I need to resolve. Even plain mailing list archives are miles ahead in that aspect.

                  Meanwhile, the community discussions are stuck inside a proprietary silo that appears convenient until the company decides to profit from it through eventual and inevitable enshittification. At that point, the rest of the world will be left looking for a way to free those discussions.

                  • CliveRosfield@lemmy.world
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                    9 months ago

                    It’s been 8 years and they’ve done nothing and still haven’t. The criticism that you have to make an account to use a search feature which many forums already do makes no sense. My uploads from the day discord released are still there.

                    There were many times I couldn’t find a Reddit thread using a web search whereas I could immediately find it using reddits built-in search. Most of the search engines aren’t actually that good because there is too much noise in most web browser results these days.

                    If you know the exact website or app where the discourse for your topic is happening then 99% of the time you have far better results just using that websites built in search instead of the trash results modern browsers give you.

                    May I remind you that situation you’re describing already happened countless times since the days of free forum boards and irc channels going down. Yet we’ve always managed to keep things going. Things shutting down and information needing to be found again is not a big deal.

                    If anything I’ve seen more information lost by people hosting things themselves than the 8 years discord has kept things running smooth. So many niche communities on public forums, irc channels, etc, all self hosted and gone. Yes I and most of the world are willing to not cry about making an account for that guaranteed stability.

        • CliveRosfield@lemmy.world
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          9 months ago

          At the end of the day all of the reasons you stated maybe <1% of people care about and most of the points have nothing to do with the chatting features itself. If I’m honest it’s basically paranoia and fear for the insanely low chance something goes slightly wrong. It’s like refusing to leave your house because you can spontaneously get struck by lightning. 🤷

          Whatever solution you’re using I would bet most people would find incredibly annoying to use from a usability perspective. As it would lack the 8 years worth of features and QoL discord introduced.

          So we have a philosophical difference and that’s that.

          • 418teapot@lemmy.world
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            9 months ago

            Agreed, but my point is with a centralized network the lowest common denominator wins. There is no reason you can’t have QoL features on an open network, and thusly let everyone have the features that they care most about.

            Can you imagine what a shithole the internet would have been if email wasn’t federated an open? There is absolutely no way that whatever centralized bullshit would have spawned instead would already be either long gone or enshittified to the point of being useless.

      • xigoi@lemmy.sdf.org
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        9 months ago

        Do you want to alienate users who are banned from Discord or don’t want to use proprietary software?

        • CliveRosfield@lemmy.world
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          9 months ago

          Yup. I am not giving up that convenience for a tiny fractional minority. They’re the ones wanting to die on a hill over a trivial problem not me.