• 【J】【u】【s】【t】【Z】@lemmy.world
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    10 months ago

    Pal read through the bullshit you’re posting.

    Click the links. Read the articles.

    This is what pro-Hamas news coverage calls “human shields”:

    With the ‘early warning’ procedure the Israeli army would force local Palestinians to approach the homes of militants and tell them to surrender.

    That is what Israel outlawed.

    That’s a pretty loose definition of human shields. Hamas literally surrounds themselves with dozens or hundreds of people and builds military infrastructure under their homes.

    Your premise is ridiculous.

    • ???@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      With the ‘early warning’ procedure the Israeli army would force local Palestinians to approach the homes of militants and tell them to surrender.

      That is what Israel outlawed.

      Which part of this is acceptable to you? Which part of forcing a civilian Palestinian to enter a military area or battle zone is acceptable to you?


      Here are some examples of Israel using Palestinians as a human shield (either under the definition or not):



      • “In 2004, a 13-year-old boy, Muhammed Badwan, was photographed tied to an Israeli police vehicle in the West Bank village of Biddu being used as a shield to deter stone-throwing protesters.” source: Wikipedia source from below)


      • “On Friday, 13 May 2022, at around 6:00 A.M., Israeli troops, including Special Police Unit forces, entered the al-Hadaf neighborhood in Jenin. They stopped by the home of the extended Mer’eb family, blew up the door of Muhammad and Manal Mer’eb’s apartment on the first floor, and called for the couple’s son Mahmoud (20) to come out. The parents came out with three of their children – ‘Ahd (16), Fares (9) and 'Abd a-Rahman (4). Mahmoud stayed in the apartment. Two of Muhammad’s brothers, their mother Khairiyah (64), and their wives and children – 12 people in total – stayed in their apartments on the top floor.” Shortly after the family members came outside, armed Palestinians began firing at the forces. An exchange of fire ensued, in which Mahmoud Mer’eb also participated, firing from inside the apartment. After about three hours, the family members on the top floor also came outside, and then the forces fired at least six missiles at the house. One of the armed Palestinians, Daoud Zubeideh, a resident of Jenin Refugee Camp, and Special Police Unit commander Noam Raz sustained critical injuries in the exchange of fire. Both later died of their wounds. Testimonies collected by B’Tselem’s field researcher indicate that during their attempt to draw Mahmoud outside, the forces used his parents, his sister ‘Ahd and his grandmother as human shields: they stood his father Muhammad and his sister ‘Ahd between the military jeeps and the armed Palestinians who were firing at them, leaving the two unprotected and exposed to gunfire; they ordered his mother Manal to go into the house – which was at the center of the exchange of fire – in order to persuade Mahmoud to come out and bring them the military robot they had sent towards the house; and finally, after Manal failed at the task they had assigned her, they ordered his grandmother to go inside, too, to try and convince Mahmoud to turn himself in. source: B’Tselem

      • Or this one caught on video: “DURA, West Bank, Jan 16 (Reuters) - A Palestinian shop owner said Israeli troops used him as a human shield to protect themselves during a raid on the town of Dura in the occupied West Bank.” source: Reuters



      And here is some more on this from Wikipedia:

      According to B’tselem, the IDF repeatedly used Palestinians as human shields. This practice became military policy during the Second Intifada, and was only dropped when Adalah challenged the practice before Israel’s High Court of Justice in 2002. However, the IDF persisted in using Palestinians in its ‘neighbor procedure’, whereby people picked at random were made to approach the houses of suspects and persuade them to surrender, a practice which arguably placed the former’s lives in danger. The court ruled in October 2005 “that any use of Palestinian civilians during military actions is forbidden, including the ‘prior warning procedure’.” (link below)

      You don’t like this website, fine… here is:

      Edit: added pictures. Edit: fixed some formatting + reuters link

      • 【J】【u】【s】【t】【Z】@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        I get it. Yeah, those are awful and I’m glad Israel outlawed such conduct.

        So I’m 2004 we’ve got one bootlicker MP assaulting his single teenage ward by tying him to the jeep. Horrible judgment.

        In 2022 two prisoners were left in the front of some police cars while their family members started firing at the police, and they forced the mother to go inside the house to try and persuade the shooters to surrender (and retrieve a robot). The three were unharmed.

        In 2016 the shop owner was arrested and then the two soldiers walked behind him through a crowd of rock throwers instead of one in front, one behind, which is how a prisoner should be transported with two escorts.

        That’s five people and your last article, which regardless of the website contains insufficient information to fact check the “reports” and is therefore not credible.

        I’m talking about Human shields like in on October 18 in Northern Gaza when Hamas sent out a massive social media campaign falsely telling Palestinians to remain in their homes. Also when Hamas does things like, ya know, build a massive tunnel network to do terrorism underneath the homes of 3,600 people.

        I’ll grant you your loose definition of “human shields” for the five people you’ve described and where there is five j assume there is a hundred. It’s been outlawed. I wonder if anyone did a follow up to these stories to see if the police/soldiers involved after the change in law were held accountable. Still, Im talking about something materially different.

        • ???@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          First of all, about that woman:

          You said:

          In 2022 two prisoners were left in the front of some police cars while their family members started firing at the police, and they forced the mother to go inside the house to try and persuade the shooters to surrender (and retrieve a robot). The three were unharmed.

          1. Here is some of her testimony:

            I was terrified, especially when some bullets fired by the Palestinians hit the jeep, maybe five bullets. The shooting intensified, and I ducked because I was afraid of being hit, but the officer in the jeep shouted at me to stand up and raise my head.

          2. You also claim that they were prisoners. Instead, they were Muhammad (the father) and his sister ‘Ahd (aged 16).

          3. They threatened them with demolishing their house if they don’t cooperate as human shields:

            I heard loud blasts and later realized they were the missiles the Border Police fired at our house. One of the officers pressed a phone to my ear and told me I had a call. There was an ISA agent on the line. He wanted me to persuade Mahmoud to turn himself in and threatened that otherwise, they’d bring the house down on top of him.

          You are deliberately rephrasing it to make it sound less awful but it’s not working…



          I’ll grant you your loose definition of “human shields” for the five people you’ve described and where there is five j assume there is a hundred.

          ROFL

          Palestinian’s and human rights org’s definition of Israel using human shields: IDF soldiers grab them and tie them to a truck or force them to be in a cross-fire or approach items that may be bombs or go into the homes of terrorists, totally fine!

          Israel’s definition of Hamas using human shields: literally a Gazan just making food in their home while their daughter plays in the next room… by simply existing in their own house.

          These people are five examples of survivors who lived in horror, human rights organizations tried to document their plight. These are classic examples of the use of human shields (unlike ‘proximate shielding’ which is actually not a textbook example of human shield use). Classic examples and you still can’t see it.

          Edit:

          So I’m 2004 we’ve got one bootlicker MP assaulting his single teenage ward by tying him to the jeep. Horrible judgment.

          So a confirmed use of human shields.

          In 2022 two prisoners were left in the front of some police cars while their family members started firing at the police, and they forced the mother to go inside the house to try and persuade the shooters to surrender (and retrieve a robot). The three were unharmed.

          So a confirmed use of human shields.

          In 2016 the shop owner was arrested and then the two soldiers walked behind him through a crowd of rock throwers instead of one in front, one behind, which is how a prisoner should be transported with two escorts.

          So a confirmed use of human shields.

          It’s not “a loose case of human shield use” because you rephrase it into “walked behind him through a crowd of rock throwers”…
          By this logic, murder is just “some knife that found itself thrown into a man’s chest”. Fucking hell, dude… the lengths you go to to make the IDF look okay… I’m starting to wonder, is this psychological? Seriously, like not trying to make you look bad or anything, but… you’re driving totally rational people here insane with your circular logic.

          I’m sorry. I can’t help you. Back to no talking. Bye!