"When we decided to give the test to the development team (about 15 developers) — most of them got scores that were lower than our threshold (45%), despite them all being rock-solid developers. Also, there were some candidates who managed to get 95% and above — but would then just be absolutely awful during the interview — we would later discover that they were paying someone to complete the technical test on their behalf.
There is no substitute for taking the time to sit down and talk to someone."
That’s pretty good advice. Interesting read.
The job of HR is to manage employee needs, not to make business decisions, like what kind of employees are a good fit for a team. The moment HR gets involved with that decision making is the moment a poisonous cancer mestastatises and starts killing the company from within.
HR is never about employee needs. Their role is to protect the interests of the business, especially with respect to employment law. I would argue that HR failed abysmally in this case, but not because it sucked for the hiring manager or the candidate, but because the business lost out on a talented individual and put the business at risk of a law suit.
It would be odd to not have HR involved in hiring imo. When I was hiring for my team I was happy HR was involved, I gauged technical ability + fit for the team, HR gauged general fit with the company. We’d then have a chat afterwards to compare and see whether we would move forward with the candidate, and honestly the opinions were always along the same lines. It took some of the responsibility off my back knowing that the candidate received the green light from an independent party as well.
I would argue that HR has a very specific role in hiring, namely background checks and verifying that the resume matches reality.
she later told me that I was anti-authoritarian and more likely to do what I thought was right rather than what I had been instructed to do. I am still baffled to this day about how that is an undesirable attribute
It isn’t unless you’re a corporation trying to keep employees down.
It is if you’re the one trying to coordinate multiple product teams and one of them doesn’t build to spec, introduces different behavior in edge cases or declares something to be “not their responsibility”. Anti-authoritarianism is a bad trait to combine with “being wrong”.
Someone who wasn’t present during the design meetings, stakeholder calls, planning sessions etc… can absolutely still have very good input regarding decisions that were made. But they should raise those concerns with whoever made the final designs and discuss them, not decide on their own to deviate from the given instructions. They may not see the full picture and cause a ton of delays that way.
You are describing here someone who will get wrong and isn’t able to work properly. If this is the kind of person you are looking to hire, then good for you, and your hiring process is perfect. But good employees will hate your company, because you consider them like bad ones. Many people will also end up acting like bad employees because that’s how you consider them, so why should they bother?
This the problem with modern management and hr: it is hostile to employees.
Team coordination is now being hostile to employees?
Who do you prefer, someone who:
- Thinks critically about his assignments
- Communicates concerns with his coworkers
- Can intelligently express his reasoning
- Is open to being wrong
- Helps improve a product
Or someone who:
- Thinks critically about his assignments
- Creates alternative designs that they feel are better
- Builds those designs despite this not being instructed
- Creates beautiful software, which ends up incompatible with the other software it needs to work with because they didn’t consider various requirements from other stakeholders
- Causes delays and frustration because their stuff, nice as it is, isn’t to spec and needs to be rebuilt
You can be a brilliant developer and a terrible employee at the same time. If you want to design software as you like it, you should be in the design sessions. And not ignore the hard work those people already did and throw it out without discussion.
Anti-authoritarianism is a bad trait. Critical thinking and standing up for your ideas is not. I frequently question design decisions I have not made myself, because A) there could be something that was overlooked or B) I’m overlooking something and I don’t have a full picture of the scope. Either should be resolved by a quick chat with the designers, not by me ignoring instructions and doing whatever I feel like is best.
Part of being a good developer is also accepting that you might be wrong and your ideas might be bad. That doesn’t mix well with anti-authoritarianism.
I’m talking anecdotally and from my experience here, not as an absolute.
I will upfront admit i am somewhat biased against authority in general, especially what i perceived to be unearned authority (if you wish to be a respected authority, earn it and continue to do so) In this case however I’m talking about “authority” in a professional sense somewhat measured against the success or failure of particular projects or initiatives.
For the most part i agree with you but it seems like you are using the term “anti-authoritarian” as an absolute, as in being against authority is bad in all cases.
At a lot of companies “Critical thinking and standing up for your ideas” is considered anti-authoritarian because the company culture doesn’t allow for that kind of autonomy of thought (by design or long term evolution usually).
Your example works in the context of a company that works in a manner that promotes/encourage that kind of person, not all of them do. My personal experience and that of my circle of colleagues and acquaintances, I’d guess that percentage is around 30/70 with the 70% being companies that either actively or passively punish/discourage both of those types of employees.
Which i’d imagine is what @bouh meant when they said “But good employees will hate your company, because you consider them like bad ones”
Anti-authoritarianism is a bad trait. when the authority in question is doing the correct things (for whatever definition of correct you wish to use). “Anti-authoritarianism” and “Critical thinking and standing up for your ideas” are not mutually exclusive.
As with most things it’s contextual.
You are completely missing the point. The problem is that you are considering employees to be the bad ones, and thus you are selecting them.
If you’re confusing “anti authoritarian” with “cannot work in a team”, well that’s extremely worrying. Don’t engineers get introduced to ethics on the work place where you come from? “anti authoritarian” might as well mean “won’t agree to do anything dangerous just because your boss told you to”. Hence why the author refers to Millgram’s.
Anti-authoritarian can lead to difficulties in coordination with other teams. I’m not saying it has to, but it can.
Not doing something unethical from a moral standpoint makes you a good person, but not necessarily a good employee. But in the vast majority of cases engineers aren’t presented with morally dubious tasks.
Not doing what you’re told because you think you know better is also anti-authoritarian, and definitely would be considered a bad trait to have for an employee.
You have a legal obligation to refuse to do something unethical, so it depends whose definition of “good” you’re looking at, the HR dep, or the engineering one.
Not doing what you’re told because you think you know better still sounds better than blindly doing what you’re told. Employees following instructions they don’t understand, when talking about desk jobs, kills any motivation. Let them offer alternatives, and argue a bit. There’s a difference between disagreeing and misunderstanding, and I bet the anti authoritarian crowd is more bothered by the latter than the former
Yea, that one point in the post doesn’t necessarily make much sense (though this really depends on how the corresponding questions were phrased). Doing what you think is right over what you’re told is good if it’s a question of morals, it’s not good if you’re in a situation where you might not have the full picture. Though the correct thing to do when you’re told to do something you don’t agree with in this case would regardless be to bring it up and have a discussion about it.
One of the first things I did when I lead my department was tell HR that I want veto power to anybody they added to my team.
Rejected. They said they need to be in the loop.
I then said I want the power to help filter applications.
Rejected. They didn’t want me to feel “burdened”, and even when I said it’s important, they rejected.
I went to the CTO to hire a handful engineers without HR approval. I needed them for a specific project, and going through HR would take weeks. He approved and we went above HR’s stupid hiring process.
It’s a endless battle against HR.
They’re just trying to validate their position…by creating boatloads of bureaucracy.
I avoid any company that requires a software test before the interview.
I worked for a company that introduced them after I joined, I collected evidence all of the companies top performers wouldn’t have joined since we all had multiple offers and having to do the test would put people off applying. The scores from it didn’t correlate with interview results so it was being ignored by everyone. Still took 2 years to get rid of it.
The best place used STAR (Situation Task Action Result) based interviews. The goal was to ask questions until you got 2 stars.
I thought these were great because it was more varied and conversational but there was a comparable consistency accross interviewers.
You would inevitably get references to past work and you switch to asking a few questions about that. Since it was around a situation you would get more complete technical explanations (e.g. on that project I wrote an X and Y was really challenging because of Z).
I loved asking “Tell me about something your really proud off”. Even a nervous junior would start opening up after that question.
After an hour interview you would end up with enough information you could compare them against the company gradings (junior, senior, etc…).
This was important because it changed the attitude of the interview. It wasn’t a case of if the candidate would be a good senior dev for project X, but an assessment of the candidate. If they came out as a lead and we had a lead role, lets offer them that.
So the psychometric “analysis” test simply serves to put shade on any decision the interviewing team makes from upper management, and a cover for being borderline discriminatory?
Also, there were some candidates who managed to get 95% and above — but would then just be absolutely awful during the interview — we would later discover that they were paying someone to complete the technical test on their behalf.
Yeah my company shot itself in the foot by replacing technical interviews with an online test and hiring a bunch of cheaters. After a while we started doing a zoom interview where we’d go over the code they supposedly wrote and ask them to explain it to us. Even that simple step made it obvious who had or hadn’t actually written the code they were talking about. I’m pretty sure a few candidates had somebody talking in one ear and/or typing to them on a separate screen.
Anyone who codenses candidates down to a “score” or a "number is doing it wrong.
Hiring is literally condensing candidates down to a boolean
boolean at least give the option for false,here it is either you get hired(1) or no response(null),
You may consider null as false.
“What’s your mother tongue, is it JavaScript?”
More like a promise that never rejects
Ah yes, the anti weird test. That’s how you get all of the autistic people and POCs out of the recruitment pool.
Ugh? Are you implying that every white person is a native English speaker, that non whites cannot be, or that they are unable to learn the language? Honestly your comment doesn’t reflect good on you
Now don’t misunderstand me, those personality tests are bullshit and HR is to employees what police are to citizens, but your take is bizarre to say the least
No, I’m not implying that, because that’s ridiculous.
I think it is simply saying that the named groups may get filtered out by this process, without making any claim regarding other groups.
A lot of other people who took the test got largely the same result as when they joined the company — my results had worsened (by the HR Manager’s standards) — she later told me that I was anti-authoritarian and more likely to do what I thought was right rather than what I had been instructed to do. […]
She mentioned that my chances of securing the job upon re-interviewing at the company were slim due to my psychometric profile.
What a nice thing to say to one of your senior employees. HR people really are something else. They could’ve easily lost him that day because of some random bullshit.
