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Just read it, holy fucking fuck.
You know, that interview isn’t as bad a proof that he’s a douche as people make it out to be.
I’m not saying he isn’t douche, he is. I’m just saying that specific interview wasn’t damning the way it’s been made out to be. What that interview points out and proves is that he’s old and arrogant and doesn’t bother to think.
It’s his actions in the rest of his life that damn him as a douche.
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There’s a thing Martin Luther King Jr said, that’s partially quotedHere, and I apologize for the source, but I’m a busy bee this morning and that’s the first link I could find that covered it.
Anyway, the point being is that this guy personifies exactly what MLK was saying. Outwardly an American liberal (which isn’t really the same thing that everyone everywhere uses the word liberal for, hence the specification). On the surface, he’s all for the typical ideas of equality and humanity that the word liberal is supposed to cover. But underneath, he convinces himself he’s not racist or sexist because he’s willing to vote and speak around those ideas.
But, in practice, he’s internalized the same patriarchal, bigoted fallacies as many other people do. Mind you, it is difficult to abandon the sense of superiority that thinking you’re open minded gives you long enough to actually examine yourself. And it’s his arrogance that makes it unlikely he’ll ever do the kind of self examination necessary to police himself enough to try and change.
That arrogance was reinforced by the power he held.
I mean, I don’t hate the guy. For one, hating some random stranger is a waste of energy. But he isn’t unique in his failings. Damn near every human on the planet fails at the kind of self examination necessary to see themselves as flawed. Even the best efforts can fail because it’s just so damn hard to look at yourself and divorce that view from your own inner thoughts and motivations. Being objective about the self is hard. Even when someone knows all of that, actually pulling off that objectivity is a long road filled with potholes. I know I sure as fuck fail at it often.
I just wish he be an outlier than a norm.
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Even if you are not a fan, her legacy and impact is indisputable.
Did you just “you’re god damn right” yourself?
Did you just ”Oh, you’re right. And when you’re right, you’re right” yourself?
I’ll never forget her ethereal performance as Bill Murray’s alarm clock in Groundhog’s Day.
She was robbed at the Oscars that year.
Good for her.
I am indifferent to both Cher and the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame. I’m surprised I even put in the effort to post this comment.
Thank you for your contribution.
Edit: nah
Agree. But I dont think she “change the music forever” with Believe, as she claims.
EDIT to add that talk box and vocoder were around in the 70s : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En8uiRa8jPE
Oh she did. Or rather her producers did (although I’ve read they claim to have used vocoders, not pitch correction, but who knows). Just listen to basically any modern “hip-hop” and you hear that crap.
Or maybe they just listened to the Sesame Street theme song from 1972? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMDCjA9_-tM Cause Vocoder and talk box were around way before Cher and her producers. Believe was just a big hit song, nothing innovative about it, Kraftwerk had been using that king of sound almost 30 years before she did.
I’m fully aware of vocoders and talk boxes, that both work completely differently from pitch correction. The reason why people trace the roots of exaggerated pitch correction to Cher is because her song was the first (popular) one that sounded like exaggerated pitch correction and not like a vocoder or talk box. Most audio engineers I know doubt the claims that they used vocoders, but again who knows.
I would agree that autotune might have kinda change music (although when used in a deliberately exaggerated way it doesn’t sound much different from a vocoder), but to me Cher’s song is just one of the pop hits that helped popularize the effect. IMO, it’s just a very well-produced pop song, which contributed to the rise of a form of vocal processing that’s very widespread today, which is already quite a lot. But it’s not revolutionary in itself, it’s very much in keeping with all the codes of pop music. For the records, I’m actually a teacher in audio engineering at a college and Univ so I’ve been quite interested in the over-popularity of this type of audio processing in recent decades.
Exaggerated pitch correction like that sounds very different from a vocoder (at least any vocoder I’ve ever heard). I’m sure there are ways to get close to that sound using a vocoder and other tools if you really try to replicate it, but there’s a reason pretty much everyone thought they used Auto-Tune even though vocoders had been around for a long time and they claimed to have used vocoders. And as it turns out, it was Auto-Tune.
And I’d argue the reason why she thinks she changed music forever (God I hope it’s not forever) is because of how widespread that kind of use of exaggerated pitch correction has become. Not that it in itself was a completely new and different thing that was completely unlike anything anyone had ever heard ever and music is now played backwards with no notes.
Didn’t it give us the auto-tune effect?
No. It was already widely used, discreetly. She was the first to popularize using it cranked up to 11 as an intentional style choice. It’s more apt to say she gave us T-Pain.
And T-Pain is awesome, so thanks, Cher!
(His cover of War Pigs from last year was pretty sweet.)
His Tiny Desk Concert was awesome too. He actually is an incredible singer without autotune.
That one was really good! I like his humor, and his voice really is good.
And wasn’t it the producer who did the cranking uppa? She just gave the thumbs up. She didn’t even write a single note on that track.
I’d argue it’s exactly that exaggerated sound she’s referring to. So by her giving us T-Pain she also gave us everything post T-Pain that also sounds like that.
At least T-Pain has a sense of humor about all that.
The idea that random people pick a select few musicians to be inducted is just more artificial scarcity bullshit. It’s not a legitimate institution if it can’t recognize more people to give a wider breadth of exposure to the legacy of rock n roll. By inducted some, they pretend they have the authority to determine the legacy of rock n roll, but their snubs say more about their deficiencies than about those they snub.
Why does a pop singer care about rock and roll hall of
fame? Do they induct pop singers as well?I’m not sure if you’re being factitious or not but, yes, the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame inducts pop music. In fact, it is, by definition for pop music as it is a record of the music that has influenced our society through popularity. The museum is great, and the idea of a HoF for rockstars is fun, serious and laughable. Cher absolutely belongs in it, but they only allow so many in each year… I do hope she gets in during her lifetime.
Not being facetious. I haven’t ever paid attention to the rock and roll Hall of Fame, so I always assumed that it was rock and roll artists who were inducted into it rather than other genres.
Pop is a genre, an actual style of music, not simply whatever is popular. Sometimes using a word like ‘popular’ in a genre name is a bad idea
See also: modern art, and the unwieldy term ‘post-modern’.
The Rock Hall is pretty loosey-goosey with its terms. Dolly Parton was inducted last year, which she gracefully ended up accepting only after promising to release a real rock album.
Which she did last month, by the way, and it slaps. Dolly forever.
She is a treasure.
Whitney Houston was inducted a couple of years ago. You don’t get more pop that than that, she was not rock at all; that year, she beat out Motörhead, Judas Priest, and Todd Rundgren. I don’t see how she influenced rock music, and yet, she even beat out someone who inspired her, and whose music is more closely related to rock than hers was, Chaka Khan.
I’m not saying she wasn’t incredibly talented, just that either she just doesn’t belong in the Rock n Roll HoF, or that the institution itself is a joke that shouldn’t exist.
Anyway, yeah, they induct pop singers.
Do they induct pop singers as well?
Yes the Beatles are in.
What a weird mix of examples in the summary that doesn’t do justice to her career. Was it written by the hall of fame?
why should i care if a museum thinks music is good
Okay, maybe she did say it… but WHEN she said it, it sounded like an AI autotuned toilet echo.
They should put her in the Hall just because of this action. Maybe put a sticker saying “we rocked you”. That’d be such a rock-ish thing to do.
Being real though, the fact that Rosetta godsblessed Tharpe was not in the very fucking first induction is proof the whole thing is bullshit. Sister Tharpe gave fucking birth to rock n roll. The fucking BEASTIE BOYS were in there before her. I fucking love them, but they aren’t rock n roll at all.
You can look at how many foundational rock n roll artists still aren’t listed, while non rock acts get in for hype.
It’s an empty, bullshit entity created to make money, not give real respect to artists.
The fact that willie nelson is in there is some grade a bullshit.
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Cher has been around decades before auto-tune even existed.
What!? You mean she was a singer prior to 1998!?
Nothing existed before The Undertaker threw Mankind off Hell In A Cell, and plummeted 16 ft through an announcer’s table.
Him hitting the table caused the Big Bang!
Is MetaStatic ShittyMorph??
Technically, if you count her big break as the alarm clock song from Groundhog Day.
Sure but the article specifically mentions autotune being a Cher first thing.
The ubiquitous robotic Auto-Tune effect? Cher did that first.
Motherfuckers never heard of a vocoder before.
Also it’s hilarious that other motherfuckers think that auto tune effect was supposed to hide imperfections in her singing and not be a blatant and intentional vocal effect.
“Believe” is a cheesy ass tune, tho
My friend auto tune did not exist in 1965 yet she still topped the 100 billard chart. She can more then carry a tune. Don’t diminish skill because you don’t like her style.
Maybe read the article first.
That was one point the article brought up, not exactly her sole claim to (rock) fame.
It’s a pretty big claim she’s making. I think that’s why OC is refuting it.
“Refute” implies that they successfully argued their case, which they haven’t.
No it doesn’t.
I did. Did I miss something specifically? This posturing is not helpful to your point. No wants to believe a jackass even if they are right.
The ubiquitous robotic Auto-Tune effect? Cher did that first
“I changed music forever with ‘Believe.'”
Hey - me again.
I didn’t mean to be a jackass, I was just skimming through and yours was the second comment I saw along the same line of thought within minutes, which is why I gave a curt response. I realize now that the comments were so close together that you probably didn’t even see the first one.
All that to say - sorry for being a dick, I just wanted to highlight that OC was arguing the autotune thing, not the whole article (or the headline).
Cher wasn’t the first to use Auto-tune; she was the first to use it to intentionally distort vocals as an artistic choice rather than for minor pitch corrections.
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