A marginalized group does not receive human rights, they are stripped of them. The removal of your birthrights should be violently opposed as soon as possible.

  • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    5
    ·
    1 year ago

    Even after we have abolished private property and wage labor, nature will keep creating new threats to our rights that we have to struggle against. Perhaps in some far future under FALGSC we can surpass nature and the eternal struggle for our rights will finally be won, but how could you call the rights we artificially constructed for ourselves “natural”? We only gained those rights by defeating nature!

    • Vegan btw (LOUD)@lemmy.sdf.orgOP
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      Ok but there must have been a time where people lived in peace. Then the farmers made the concept of money in the world. The word natural is extremely misleading.

      • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        5
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        People lived in peace with other people much of the time, but we never lived in peace with nature itself. Drought, flood, fire, predators, disease, infection, and many many other natural threats to our human rights have always existed. Furthermore, natural scarcity meant that even other people could become a threat - people from a different gens/tribe could decide that it’s better if the other gens/tribe dies than if everyone eats a little less to make the food last longer. Nature was humanity’s first enemy, before we divided up into class society and started to war with each other.

        I will say “natural” is misleading, because humans are natural too. That’s why I said in order for “natural” to mean anything at all then it must be distinct from human choices. If we include humans into nature, then natural rights don’t mean anything because everything is natural including human oppression.

        • Vegan btw (LOUD)@lemmy.sdf.orgOP
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          oppression people is an action(a thought such as making the other village the enemy put into action) while not oppressing people is nothing(natural).

          • PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            5
            ·
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            Animal intelligence and its products and human intelligence and its products are fundamentally the same. If beaver dam is natural then Three Gorges Dam is also natural. Difference is only in degree of sophistication.

            • JucheBot1988@lemmygrad.ml
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              1 year ago

              Animal intelligence and its products and human intelligence and its products are fundamentally the same.

              This may be true from the “outside” – i.e., from the perspective of some hypothetical non-human observer – but what it doesn’t consider, I think, is the subject-object distinction so important to historical progress. Humanity experiences itself most purely as subject (intelligible) and the non-human worldmost purely as object (alien and unintelligible). Since humanity begins in bondage to external nature, the original traumatic experience is the collective discovery that subject is in fact, and from a certain view that may be considered more “correct,” also object, and this with regard to the brute, unintelligible forces of external nature. Historical progress is humanity asserting and maximizing its subjectivity by control over the external world. Thus, dialectically, a real distinction between humanity and nature develops. Nature is that which cannot be known (by humanity) as subject, and over which humanity is struggling to assert control; humanity is that which can be known as subject, which itself struggles, and which is experienced as struggling. The precise boundary between the natural and the human is discovered and created within the conflict itself.

          • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            4
            ·
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            So a bear choosing to eat me isn’t natural?

            If we say “okay, bears are natural so anything they choose to do is natural” then you have a problem because humans are natural too.

            That’s why I made the distinction between humans and nature. Everything humans do is unnatural, including when we choose to do nothing at all.

              • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                1 year ago

                Yes, anything that can be debated internally with words or even with feelings.

                The only human behavior I think that can be called natural is truly thoughtless or automatic action. Natural breathing is when you breathe without thinking about it, unnatural breathing is when you become conscious of your own breath and start thinking about it. And it really does feel unnatural! I’m sure you’re manually breathing now too, and I’m sure you’d agree it’s quite different from natural breathing.

      • Vegan btw (LOUD)@lemmy.sdf.orgOP
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        The concept of money was put into the food. But before that people respected each other “naturally”. until those scumbags farmers put the concept of money in the “world” —outside the head