Forgetting salary cap for a minute, if the Browns could trade Myles Garrett for Patrick Mahomes straight up, right now, do you think they would hesitate for literally even a second?
Okay but that’s not how, not has it ever been how the mvp works. Again, if it was, mahomes would have every mvp since he started playing. You think the ravens in 2019 woulda said no to a Lamar for mahomes?
Or the packers in 2020/21? That’s not how it works. You still have to perform and the chiefs are scoring 5 ppg in the second half right now.
If you give the chiefs a league average defense, they’re prolly .500 or worse right now. If you give the browns a league average offense, they’re prolly 9-1
The chiefs without mahomes? I’m thinking a few other quarterbacks could average 5 ppg in the second half. The chiefs stil have a top 5 defense. The browns have a bottom 5 offense and are on their 3rd qb of the year.
I don’t think that’s how we should judge MVP. Mahomes would win every year wouldn’t he? Regardless of how he is playing because everyone knows he’s still the best and would trade any player in the league for him.
There has been 3 instances in over 60 years where it hasn’t been a QB or RB that won the award, and one of those is a kicker in a strike season. Nfl has almost effectively phased out the workhorse RB with all their rule changes towards the passing game for the past 25 years, so it is effectively only QB that can win it now.
You can probably find comparable seasons amongst those 65 years.
A lot of this could be redundant, if American sports would just have an award called “player of the year/season” instead.
Well it’s called MVP and in football by far the most valuable position is QB, so it’s not at all surprising that QBs should win it a lot. OPOY is wide open for non-QBs, especially if they tweaked the rules so you couldn’t vote for the same player at both MVP and OPOY.
I mean it has been won by other positions. But saying it’s less prestigious because it’s only won by QBs is a silly argument; as long as it’s called Most Valuable Player it actually should be won by QBs most of the time because QBs are by far the most valuable position. That’s just the nature of the sport. Nobody think the Ballon d’Or is redundant just because 90% of the time an attacking player wins it, they’re just more valuable in general and therefore better seasons are more impressive.
I wasn’t even alive but John Elway winning in 1987 with 23 total TD Is still upsetting, Jerry Rice had 23 total as well.
Literally only way I see a non QB winning anymore is if a RB breaks the Season TD record , or a defender shatters the Sack/Interception record. And i mean Shatters, by like 5 or 6
In defense of '87 (even though it’s still a travesty Rice didn’t win), the only reason Elway won was because Montana and Rice split the vote due to being on the same team IIRC
Is it that crazy if Garrett conceivably gets 23, they have the best defense in at least a decade by most advanced stats, and the QB field at the end of the season is as bleak as it looks now? He’d definitely start getting votes, if only as a protest
He had two strip sacks that led to points, including 1 that was recovered in the endzone for a defensive TD, and blocked a field goal which also led to points, all in the same game against the Colts. A game we won by 1 point. And that’s not the only game he’s won for us.
You can say that all you want but if the Cowboys were faced with keeping either Bland or Dak, you’d make fun of them for ditching Dak. 5 pick sixes is cool, but in every game he’s had a pick six, they won by double digits. Sure, momentum is a thing, but take last night’s for an example. They win that game whether Bland plays or not. You can’t guarantee that of Dak doesn’t play.
That’s a really good point. I saw stats from Dak this season and thought he might be a real MVP candidate, just because he’s probably been the best QB statistically. But, has he been an MVP? Man, I don’t think he’s been that good. He just looks good because there’s no real standout at QB. Should he get it over Garrett? Not in my opinion.
The reason it’s a discussion this year is the lack of elite QB play. It’s not comparable to those seasons
Forgetting salary cap for a minute, if the Browns could trade Myles Garrett for Patrick Mahomes straight up, right now, do you think they would hesitate for literally even a second?
That’s based on his performance in other seasons though more than this one
Is the mvp now, who would you trade for in an instant? Cuz if so mahomes should be working on his 7th straight mvp
If you would instantly trade Player B for Player A, then wouldn’t you say that would make Player A more valuable?
Okay but that’s not how, not has it ever been how the mvp works. Again, if it was, mahomes would have every mvp since he started playing. You think the ravens in 2019 woulda said no to a Lamar for mahomes?
Or the packers in 2020/21? That’s not how it works. You still have to perform and the chiefs are scoring 5 ppg in the second half right now.
If you give the chiefs a league average defense, they’re prolly .500 or worse right now. If you give the browns a league average offense, they’re prolly 9-1
They are a league average offense though. Browns are like first in the NFL in the run game (even without Nick Chubb).
Who would be better off, the browns defense without Myles, or the Chiefs offense without Mahomes? There is one objectively true answer here.
The chiefs without mahomes? I’m thinking a few other quarterbacks could average 5 ppg in the second half. The chiefs stil have a top 5 defense. The browns have a bottom 5 offense and are on their 3rd qb of the year.
I don’t think that’s how we should judge MVP. Mahomes would win every year wouldn’t he? Regardless of how he is playing because everyone knows he’s still the best and would trade any player in the league for him.
Yeah?
In no world do the browns not immediately take that trade
What about the world where they already have like $250M tied up at QB and can’t afford it?
Poor kirkland
There has been 3 instances in over 60 years where it hasn’t been a QB or RB that won the award, and one of those is a kicker in a strike season. Nfl has almost effectively phased out the workhorse RB with all their rule changes towards the passing game for the past 25 years, so it is effectively only QB that can win it now. You can probably find comparable seasons amongst those 65 years.
A lot of this could be redundant, if American sports would just have an award called “player of the year/season” instead.
It should be Most Outstanding Player, position agnostic, which would be the player who most far exceeds his peers.
Or say, Offensive Player of the Year??
There’s already Offensive and defensive player of the year
Yes, and that is not the same.
Well it’s called MVP and in football by far the most valuable position is QB, so it’s not at all surprising that QBs should win it a lot. OPOY is wide open for non-QBs, especially if they tweaked the rules so you couldn’t vote for the same player at both MVP and OPOY.
The MVP is completely redundant because the All-Pro QB1 is always gonna win. That is why the system about it is flawed.
Let the most prestigious Awards be for everyone and the lesser awards be for positions.
I mean it has been won by other positions. But saying it’s less prestigious because it’s only won by QBs is a silly argument; as long as it’s called Most Valuable Player it actually should be won by QBs most of the time because QBs are by far the most valuable position. That’s just the nature of the sport. Nobody think the Ballon d’Or is redundant just because 90% of the time an attacking player wins it, they’re just more valuable in general and therefore better seasons are more impressive.
Even better, they could do one for offense and one for defense. Call it offensive/defensive player of the year.
I wasn’t even alive but John Elway winning in 1987 with 23 total TD Is still upsetting, Jerry Rice had 23 total as well.
Literally only way I see a non QB winning anymore is if a RB breaks the Season TD record , or a defender shatters the Sack/Interception record. And i mean Shatters, by like 5 or 6
In defense of '87 (even though it’s still a travesty Rice didn’t win), the only reason Elway won was because Montana and Rice split the vote due to being on the same team IIRC
I honestly think it would take a 27 sack season AND no standout QB for a defender to win.
Is it that crazy if Garrett conceivably gets 23, they have the best defense in at least a decade by most advanced stats, and the QB field at the end of the season is as bleak as it looks now? He’d definitely start getting votes, if only as a protest
Yes. Bland just set the record for pick 6s in a season. Mccaffrey might score 25 to 30 tds. Hill might have 2k receiving yds.
He would need score som tds or start going jj watt and swatting passes as well
He had two strip sacks that led to points, including 1 that was recovered in the endzone for a defensive TD, and blocked a field goal which also led to points, all in the same game against the Colts. A game we won by 1 point. And that’s not the only game he’s won for us.
He blocked a kick against us. Singlehandedly won that game.
And tj watt scored a td that won a game for the Steelers. He is also not mvp.
There are too many offensive players and also another defensive player that would make garrets selection confounding
That would eclipse the single season sack record by what, 4.5?
All records need to be shattered anymore to not have that (17 games)* on it
That bland guy on the cowboys should win tbh. And I’m a giants fan. I hate everything
You can say that all you want but if the Cowboys were faced with keeping either Bland or Dak, you’d make fun of them for ditching Dak. 5 pick sixes is cool, but in every game he’s had a pick six, they won by double digits. Sure, momentum is a thing, but take last night’s for an example. They win that game whether Bland plays or not. You can’t guarantee that of Dak doesn’t play.
Montana and Rice split the vote enough that Elway got it lol
Jerry lost it because he and Montana split votes
That’s a really good point. I saw stats from Dak this season and thought he might be a real MVP candidate, just because he’s probably been the best QB statistically. But, has he been an MVP? Man, I don’t think he’s been that good. He just looks good because there’s no real standout at QB. Should he get it over Garrett? Not in my opinion.
Garrett is on pace for 22 sacks.