I’m considering getting a laptop for Linux and want to know a few things before I do. Some important info before I start: I don’t plan on using the laptop for anything too intense, mainly writing, digital art, streaming, browsing, and maybe very mild video editing (cropping at least and shortening at most). I would also prefer the laptop to be inexpensive, preferably under 1000 USD
I mainly want to know if whether I should get a laptop by a manufacturer that specializes in Linux or a laptop that runs a different OS (exp: Windows) to install Linux on later. I’ve also scouted out quite a few distros and have a good idea of which ones I would like using
I’ve already looked at a few mainline Linux hardware producers like System76 but want to know if it’s worth it before sinking money into it
Check out Framework if you haven’t already! https://frame.work/linux
They’re designed to be upgraded and repaired over time so they’re super modular. You can also save some money if you’re not afraid to put it together yourself.
While I support the framework laptop, OP did also say under a thousand dollars. You cannot really get a framework laptop for that price.
Edit: Thousand, not hundred
You can get a diy base framework 13 with either intel or amd for $849 w/o ram and the ssd, and just purchase those part separately for just about $1000 total.
And if you’re replacing one, you could possibly pull the ram and SSD from it to use in the frame work.
The SSD will need to be an M.2 form factor, and the ram will need to be SODIMM DDR5; both of which are relatively new form factors in the grand scheme of things. The ssd from a former laptop will probably fit, but SODIMM DDR5 is maybe two years old at this point. The older intel models that still use DDR4 are out of stock at this point on the framework website.
How’s the Camera working on these? On most recent laptops it seems not to be just a camera sensor like in the good ol’ days, but a full blown i2c module, which does a lot of processing before delivering the images, and with rather obscure code that people is really struggling to build drivers for.
Works fine on Linux for me, you sure you mean i2c? I think you mean v4l2 or something, i2c max bitrate is like 500kbit/s. I can check but I’m pretty sure it’s usb or something similar, it works on Google hangouts on Chrome at least, I use my fw for work.
Perfect, thank you! Some laptops these days have increasingly complex camera modules that make having drivers for them increasingly messy.
Mine in in the mail. Got the shipping notification last night. So excited! I didn’t the past year saving up for it. I’m glad to see that everything works out of the box with Fedora.
While the laptops being so modular is really useful, the list of supported OS seem a bit narrow, although that doesn’t mean I’m not considering. Thank you!
Those are the officially supported distros. You can install other ones just fine. I doubt you’d find another laptop that had even just more than 1 officially supported distro.
Yeah, but I’d still like the peace of mind from knowing for sure other distros work, y’know?
Sure, fair enough. There are other distros supported by the community if you want to check that out too.
You honestly won’t find better than the support for framework in the laptop space. The arch wiki entry for it is fantastic, and having multiple supported distros is almost unique.
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What distro are you considering? I know e.g. Arch has a wiki page dedicated to the FrameWork and basically everything works.
Lenovo is renowned for their excellent linux compatibility. I’m sure you’ll get a bunch of proponents here saying the same.
BUT, oh boy. Don’t get me started…
Too late. Having used various models of thinkpads in recent years, their inconsistent keyboard layouts will drive you absolutely insane. I swear, at this point they’re just fucking with us.
I’ve got one in pieces somewhere, that has/had the ~ key next to the FN key on the bottom row! How the fuck are you supposed to use Linux if you’re ~ key is down there? It’s fucking stupid.
Not to mention their keys have a tendency to break off with just the mildest of fist slams.
AND the latest work-issued recent model is fucking with us again! It has the FN key ON THE LEFT SIDE of the Ctrl key on the left. Who does that? The Ctrl is always the left-most bottom key. Now, every time I fucking go to press Ctrl+something, I end up hitting FN instead.
Fucking morons! At this rate this laptop will also end up in pieces.
So, tldr; Stay the fuck away from Lenovo if you want to use Linux and not end up in prison for vehicular homicide.
Oh :( As annoying as that is I can’t bring myself to completely take it off the board. Thanks for the warning, though! Nobody’s mentioned that so far :)
It’s not like other keyboards are better, I know why they are pissed and while it is annoying, Thinkpads X, T and P series are great linix machines.
What I don’t like is soldered RAM. I got T490 after almost a decade of using X220, because it, at least, had one ram slot. Now I am rocking 48GB of ram in reliable hardware which os completely supported in linux (except bt having some issues, but still).
What issues are you having with BT? I recently bought a second hand T490 and Fedora with KDE has been great! I have not extensively used BT, but I always use a BT keyboard and it has been fine :)
Microphone on my headphones is not working, it is connecting but codec is off. It us not working with second parmir different manufacturer.
I got bt usb dongle and both work with it.
I don’t know if the problem is in kernel driver or bt deamon…
Hahaha, I’m the opposite I’ve been so used to the thinkpad fn that I hate using other laptop keyboards.
Hear me out. Go to the BIOS. Swap Left Ctrl and FN! Thanks me later :)
Thank you! It’s a bloody miracle!
The Fn and Carl keys can be switched in software. I have a work-issued Lenovo with a similar layout. They can be soft-swapped in the BIOS. There’s also a desktop utility to do the same but I don’t know if they have a Linux version of it. I totally agree, the physical layout is annoying but it has a simple fix.
I’ve had to borrow computers with fn and ctrl swapped. I understand shat you mean
Funny, I seriously considered getting one over the past year, but the past couple of months I’ve been reading all kinds of complaints about them. Seems there is a problem with consistent quality.
Used Thinkpad from eBay is your best bet to start imo.
No question, excellent compatibility, will last you a while, you can get a nicer one once you get comfortable.
Spent $500 on this one to hold you over till you can afford a framework, or spend less, you can still get by with a decent one for $250 or so.
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Yeah I’m considering getting one simply bc of the affordability. They also seem to be pretty highly regarded (if the amount of recommendations I’ve gotten says anything)
You could get the education edition. I have a new yoga 11e and it has a great keyboard, and it’s just… way too good for the money (250 bucks). I love that if I break or lose it I can just get an idenical one for super cheap in a couple days. But they’re made for kids so they’re pretty durable anyway.
I’m a fan of Framework laptops. They have given people the option to upgrade several motherboards by Intel and released an AMD version to boot. I don’t think there’s ever been a manufacturer that offered three generations of motherboards on the same chassis. The swappable ports are kind of neat, you can choose which ones you want to use
The 13" is already on sale with a 16" coming later this year
I’ve heard really highly of framework so far! They seem to be a great company, thanks :)
Just bought a second hand Lenovo p50, before framework’s most receng laptop, like the idea of a framework laptop but for now this thing is plenty powerful so can’t really justify upgrading for some years yet
I bought a DIY Edition Framework Laptop 13 with an i5 1240p for about $1050 after buying my RAM and SSD on their own. This is the best option if you’re into modularity and upgradability and second only to buying used when it comes to environmental friendliness (in my opinion). Battery life isn’t anything to write home about at least on 12th Intel though, supposedly 13th gen Intel CPUs do better
Otherwise, System76, Tuxedo Computers, and Laptop with Linux are probably good options if you want Linux pre-installed. All 3 of those take Clevo laptops and make them their own.
Starlabs also looks like an interesting option, but I believe the Starlite is the only option under $1000 USD. As far as I know, they’re the only company that makes their own laptop chases from scratch for Linux.
Links:
Framework has quite a nice selection and the modularity is an amazing feature! Although having Linux preinstalled is a pretty big draw, and Sysytem76 has some VERY nice looking machines. Thank you!
I’m on my second Dell XPS 13 Developer laptop which comes with Ubuntu pre installed. I loved the first one but played too much Minecraft and wore out a couple of keys. I had it long enough that decent replacement keyboards were hard to find so I got a new laptop from the same line. I love the second one even more. My brother, also a Linux-using software professional, made the initial recommendation, so there is at least one other person who liked this line.
Ooo, nice! Although I don’t really want to use Ubuntu myself (nothing wrong with the distro itself, I’ve just tried others I like), the knowledge it’s Linux compatible is amazing!
Love my XPS 13, runs fedora with no issues. Such a solid laptop. Also love my 4K screen
I had an XPS 13 non developer for about 5 years. Ran any distro I threw at it. Upgraded to a frameworks last year though and not looking back. It’s all about that 3:2 display for me. The main thing I miss on the XPS is that it sipped power while suspended. I could leave it with the lid closed for a week unplugged and it would still be at 50% The framework 12th Gen is not so forgiving. If it sits in my bag all weekend it will be dead come Monday.
If you can you should try to savve up for a framework laptop
You got all the good infos already, but I’ll stress:
- Get Linux preinstalled from a reputable vendor. Linux works on most devices really; but when buying new, you don’t want the hassle to even think about drivers.
- If you cannot buy from a Linux-friendly vendor, buy an older model that’s VERY popular with Linux users (like the stereotypical thinkpad). Again, most devices will work, but you don’t want the hassle.
- Intel everything just works out-of-the-box with Open Source drivers and is good enough for work. I’m not aware of the current state of AMD, nvidia drivers.
- Choose a popular generic purpose distro. They are all good (enough) and should work out of the box. Popular for end users are Ubuntu (although hated by a vocal group) and related ones such Debian or PopOS; maybe Mint. I’d put Fedora/RedHat and Suse on the same level (but I wouldn’t know since I settled on Debian/Ubuntu long ago). Then, Arch adresses a different clientele who wants to tinker with there system; not my choice if you want a computer that just works, but great community. Anything else probably has too small of a user group unless it’s popular with your friends or line of work
- Treat it like a Mac. It’s different.
I have been purposefully avoiding Intel for the last six years. AMD CPUs are great if you are not stressed on ultra low power consumption. More threads, less money. AMD GPU drivers are open source and well integrated into the kernel, unlike NVidia’s proprietary driver, which I will never go back to.
Great that AMD has open source drivers, didn’t know that.
If your on a budget, an older Thinkpad is a good choice. I picked up a X220 with a charger and spare battery off of Craiglist a year ago for $60.
Ended up going with Coreboot with a SeaBIOS payload and Debian OS.
I have enough money to buy a more modern Lenovo laptop, but I’m definitely considering getting one renewed simply because of how cheap it is. I’d prefer newer age specs tho. Thank you!
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Ooo, nice! I’ve been meaning to learn more about cli/tui stuff, anyway. Thanks!
The x220 is quite easily the best laptop ever made imo, and I’ll never understand why they just don’t slap modern hardware into it and re-release it.
If you’re thinking of getting one, i personally would recommend getting one from https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/. Extremely good quality and a really clean distro with Tuxedo OS 2 although you are able to install on it whatever you want.
Thanks! They look good but are a little expensive :( they’re definitely a vendor I’ll look into in the future, though!
I know you mentioned System76, but I thought an anecdote of the gazelle 15 I bought during covid would help.
It’s the 2021 model with a 10th-gen i5, 16GB DDR4 RAM, a cheap 256 nvme SSD, and a GTX 1660ti for $1300. Very good laptop that I’ve used the hell out of since then. Has an excellent 120hz IPS panel (1080p) that’s just buttery smooth, and using pop_os on it has been very stable, even with all their firmware updates including the switch to coreboot for their UEFI. Plays all the games I needed to when I was away from home, and the keyboard is one of the best I’ve typed on, on a laptop.
Now my only issue with it, is the shell, which was not entirely metal as I was led to believe. It’s got some pretty cheap plastic for the bottom side that feels like it will crack if dropped even from a short height. I THINK this has been changed in newer models though, as they were using rebranded Clevo laptops for their chassis. Still, I hate that it’s half nice brushed aluminum looking metal and half brittle plastic housing a VERY (at the time) expensive parts. It’s the only flaw
Does this change my mind on buying System76? No, because I’ve seen their newer stuff and it’s made leaps and bounds from my laptop in just a couple of years, and I absolutely plan on buying a beefier Oryx Pro or something on the future. They’re excellent Linux machines
Framework all the way!
System 76 customer here. I just replaced my 2011 system 76 lemur with a new lemur. I have Ubuntu installed on both and have never tried pop os. I was very happy with that laptop and the company in general. It actually still runs okay. I did replace the battery after about 5 or 6 years. I’m thinking of trying out nixos on it.
My guilty reason for upgrading was I wanted to play dwarf fortress at more than 5 fps…
I’m curious why you’ve never tried pop? I thought i’d hate the tiling and all that, but it and the gestures are so intuitive… i’ve used all sorts of desktop environments on linux over the last 20 some years, and pop is by far the most usabunity with the least learning curve.
Well, Pop was released way after I bought the first laptop. I guess I haven’t had any reason to try it out, as I’m happy with my i3/sway setup. I don’t really hop distros at all. Maybe when system76 completes/releases their full cosmic desktop (not based on gnome) I’ll give it a spin.
If you’re in Europe, I can recommend Tuxedo Computers. They specialise in making Linux based computers, and are highly configurable.
Thinkpad T480s if you wanna save money for another something but get a good screen version. To take it to 1000USD on refurb /2nd hand Thinkpad Carbon.
Youre in a Linux thread, these run Linux like a dream.
I’ve heard they run Linux well before, but I certainly didn’t expect them to be so popular, lol. Plus they’re cheap, which make them seem like a very nice choice. Thanks for the model specific recs, too!
