• YAMAPIKARIYA@lemmyfi.comOPEnglish
      353·
      8 months ago

      Torx is only good if your screw is non rusting it rounds off too fast with almost any sign of rust.

      • MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz
        31·
        8 months ago

        Torx kinda requires it be made of a decent alloy, it was developed to handle situations where you really really need torque. Handling more force than anything else was the guiding principle of its design.

        Hence you find it in places such as bicycle disc brake rotor mounts.

          • nilloc@discuss.tchncs.deEnglish
            5·
            8 months ago

            Torx deck screws are pretty standard now too. They work well and are usually powder coated. Our 10 year old deck is still doing fine in humid summers and frozen winters.

      • Empricorn@feddit.nlEnglish
        3·
        8 months ago

        it rounds off too fast

        You’ve had significant issues with Torx screws rounding off? I think it’s designed be the least prone to that. My personal (very minor) issue with Torx screws is they provide too much grip and torque. They will break before they cam-out and I’ve snapped off screw heads and the bits themselves, even hand-tightening.

        • Krzd@lemmy.world
          5·
          8 months ago

          If there’s slightly-deeper-than-surface rust the lobes get brittle and tend to break off.

    • ForgotAboutDre@lemmy.world
      241·
      8 months ago

      Hex should be B teir. Pozi should be C, it’s very common in the UK for low torque applications. But it looks deceptively similar to Phillips.

      • evranch@lemmy.ca
        22·
        8 months ago

        Hex could even be A tier except…

        • 10 million metric sizes
        • 10 million imperial sizes
        • heads get full of rust or dirt
        • note that this makes it even harder to tell which damn size they are
        • usually mild steel so they strip, especially when it turns out you’re using imperial in metric and vice versa

        Too many years of wrenching on old equipment has soured me on all except for the good old fashioned hex bolt (S tier) and Robertson (A tier).

        Even slotted beats most of these if the steel is decent, scrape out the rust and whack it with an impact screwdriver. I’ve turned many torx and hex in particular into slotted over the years.

      • atmur@lemmy.worldEnglish
        6·
        8 months ago

        I could be talked into bumping Hex up to B, I just want it between Phillips and Robertson.

        I don’t have any experience with Pozi screws in the US, but doing a quick search they look like a solid upgrade over Phillips, so I’m guessing I would agree if I actually used them.

        • ForgotAboutDre@lemmy.world
          2·
          8 months ago

          You get the self centering speed of Phillips with less cam out. It’s standard for most construction style work, very useful when you need to do 100+ screws a day.

          It can be a bit of a nightmare when you first start doing DIY. Because you may not recognise the difference between Pozi and Phillips. Both drivers will turn each screw, but the wrong driver will make cam out and stripping more likely.

      • casmael@lemm.ee
        63·
        8 months ago

        Pozidriv should be fucking banned oh my god why is it so common in the uk it’s so deeply inappropriate for 99.99% of applications

        • ForgotAboutDre@lemmy.world
          7·
          8 months ago

          If you use the right driver and right size of driver. It’s very good. In my experience it’s much better than Phillips.

          Torx, hex and Robertson are better, but they don’t self centre. So if your doing a lot of screwing, pozi drive is king. Because it self centres, it’s much faster. It’s great for construction type work (decking, plasterboard, walls etc).

          If your doing more fine work, or need to apply a lot of torque it’s shouldn’t be used. But very long/thick screws tend to be external hex, torx or combinations of these at Screwfix/Toolstation.

        • Krzd@lemmy.world
          3·
          8 months ago

          Pozi is amazing for household applications where you don’t need the torque of torx, and amazing for line work where screws won’t be touched ever again (framing etc.)

    • FireTower@lemmy.world
      17·
      8 months ago

      I feel like you didn’t give enough credit to slotted and combo (& hex but others have said that). Being able to be removed with a quarter or other coin is incredibly useful in applications where access to screwdrivers isn’t a given.

      • jagungal@lemmy.world
        13·
        8 months ago

        Yeah, combo is where it’s at in terms of field serviceability. I pretty much always have a flathead on hand, but very rarely have a torx but set, Allen key, or Robertson close at hand if I’m in the field.

    • Empricorn@feddit.nlEnglish
      10·
      8 months ago

      I’m a technician and keep my 9 most-used screwdriver bits in its handle and all of these are usually fine for most applications… Except the slotted screw! I literally get annoyed every single time I have to use one, it always slips out and it’s significantly slower to screw/unscrew anything. Also, I only want to carry one, but if I use one wide enough to minimize slipping, it’s usually too thick to fit in the slot! “Screw” you, flathead screws and the $0.0001 you save with each one…

      Here’s what I use most often (not necessarily in order):

      • big Phillips
      • small Phillips
      • T25 Torx
      • T20 Torx
      • T15 Torx
      • T10 Torx
      • big security hex (hole in the middle)
      • small security hex (hole in the middle)
      • slot flathead
      • atmur@lemmy.worldEnglish
        13·
        8 months ago

        I’ve used them very rarely, but I’ve never had one strip unlike everything beneath it so I can’t complain.

        • CluckN@lemmy.world
          3·
          8 months ago

          I can complain the screw bit gets stuck inside each time and due to it being barley used in the US they are a pain to find.

          • Pyr_Pressure@lemmy.ca
            9·
            8 months ago

            In Canada it’s my preferred screw. Sometimes it gets stuck but rarely, and if it does you just back off / reverse a little bit. Its amazing because you don’t need magnets to get it to stay on the end of your driver as you line it up so much easier to do everything one handed, rarely ever strips, and you can torque it a stupid amount if you want to

            • MisterD@lemmy.ca
              3·
              8 months ago

              Example of a Canadian problem: Using impact driver drill to remove Robertson screws, the screws get stuck so good that you can shake the tool by the screw an it won’t let go.

        • Fermion@feddit.nl
          42·
          8 months ago

          They’re used in cheap drywall screws and really suck in that application. The screw is too soft and the drivers are also usually too soft and strip. Once the driver starts to round over it’s ruined.

            • Fermion@feddit.nl
              3·
              8 months ago

              Those aren’t separable issues. A good drive system would do more to compensate for material deficiencies. A shitty torx screw is a lot better than a shitty robertson screw. Robertson is at best C tier.

              • ForgotAboutDre@lemmy.world
                3·
                8 months ago

                I think torx are usually in higher end applications. So a shitty torx is going to be better quality materials than a equivalent shitty hex and Robertson.

    • naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      105·
      8 months ago

      flat beats Phillips you Philistine! sure it’s not self centering but at least you can torque it and it’s compatible with improvised tools.

      • atmur@lemmy.worldEnglish
        9·
        8 months ago

        In theory they’re good, but I’ve had a few too many allen/hex screws strip and having both SAE and metric standards is irritating. Tool quality has been an issue as well, I’ve had shitty Torx screwdrivers last for years and years while a decent allen wrench will snap or wear out way faster. Still miles better than Phillips though.

        Edit: also you can use Torx bits on hex screws, so more points for Torx.

        • Aux@lemmy.world
          1·
          8 months ago

          Torx screws might last for years, but Torx bits don’t last for more than a minute. Bloody hate them!

      • Maalus@lemmy.world
        5·
        8 months ago

        Thwy strip, and good luck with torquing them to anything. I can’t count how many times I had to drill out hex screws, and I don’t even work with metal that much

    • aulin@lemmy.world
      41·
      8 months ago

      I’ve literally never in my life seen a square or robertson screw. Pozi though is like 90% of all screws.

    • tweeks@feddit.nl
      3·
      8 months ago

      I found a screw that was a tamper proof torx apparently. With a hole in the middle. Is that even higher up?

    • ridethisbike@lemmy.world
      21·
      8 months ago

      At a glance the Philips screw looks like a sad face. It’s like it knows how it makes us all feel

    • atmur@lemmy.worldEnglish
      272·
      8 months ago

      This is correct, Torx is easily the best standard. Robertson is an acceptable second.

      • Salvo@aussie.zoneEnglish
        163·
        8 months ago

        Posidriv can bugger off too.

        When you look at a Robertson, or a JIS or even a Phillips you just use a JIS or Robertson and you’re fine. If it is posidriv, you must use posidriv and you can’t use posidriv with a conventional Robertson/Phillips/JIS. The only way you can tell the difference is by a teeny-tiny little dot on the screwhead or some extra minuscule fins on the driver. If you do t have your glasses, or aren’t aware, you will damage the screw and your driver.

        Hex and Torx are OK for certain things where you don’t want an ignorant pleb to gain access. Security Hex and Security Torx are OK where you don’t want an ignorant pleb in denial of their ignorance to gain access.

        All those other drivers, Triwing, Pentalobe, variants of Posidriv are just there to push proprietary applications and should not be used by anyone.

        • casmael@lemm.ee
          72·
          8 months ago

          Oh my god don’t get me started on pozidriv. Not only is it actually really spelled like that, it was literally fucking designed to limit the amount of torque applied to the screw. Fuck my life. Whoever decided to put that fucking hateful abomination on a 4 inch self tapping wood screw needs their fucking head examined and no mistake oh my god. Fuck.

          • bjorney@lemmy.ca
            4·
            8 months ago

            it was literally fucking designed to limit the amount of torque applied to the screw.

            Other way around - Phillips were designed to torque out. Pozidriv are much better for high torque applications

            • glibg10b@lemmy.ml
              3·
              8 months ago

              Phillips were designed to torque out

              That’s a myth/misconception too. Phillips is not intentionally bad

        • s_s@lemmy.one
          1·
          8 months ago

          If it is posidriv, you must use posidriv and you can’t use posidriv with a conventional Robertson/Phillips/JIS.

          Uh…you can use pozidriv or Robertson tools on pozidriv fasteners without issue… I think it’s the only standard that has cross-compatibility with another standard like that.

    • BlackAura@lemmy.world
      8·
      8 months ago

      As someone who owned a Jeep in a place where they salt the roads in the winter. Fuck torx.

      That being said no other screw head would have been any better, and maybe it was just a cheap torx socket (you could see I had actually twisted the whole head on the tool, before stripping the screw). A hex bolt for that particular application would have been much easier to remove (or snap the head off :p)

        • glibg10b@lemmy.ml
          2·
          8 months ago

          I wonder if there are fasteners and sockets that have both. I imagine hex + torx would handle a lot of torque

      • averyminya@beehaw.org
        3·
        8 months ago

        I’d like Torx if when they got used they didn’t torque the shit out of the screws. Only the Steam Controller has ever been a simple process of removing Torx screws.

        Everything else takes the power of drawing Excalibur from its stone.

        • Seven@startrek.website
          3·
          8 months ago

          For me, it’s how the key feels in the head. It doesn’t go in far enough that you can let the key just sit there on it’s own like with a hex head.

          • averyminya@beehaw.org
            2·
            8 months ago

            I hate that too, I feel like I have that issue with Philips as well. In fact, I was struggling with it just today

            • Seven@startrek.website
              2·
              8 months ago

              The flipside to that is when you’ve got a JIS driver and when you’re done it doesn’t want to let go of the screw. Very satisfying, possibly sexual.

              • variants_of_concern@lemmy.oneEnglish
                1·
                8 months ago

                I guess it just depends on your tools, I prefer torx over hex because it feels much more solid and less likely to strip out if it’s a cheap screw, I worked on a product that had the outside screws there were supposed to look nice use these hex heads made of butter haha but the rest of the appliance used all torx of the same size head

                • Seven@startrek.website
                  1·
                  8 months ago

                  Maybe, I only work with high tensile stuff and occasionally stainless, so I’ve never had issues with hex heads (that weren’t caused by misuse)

  • Pyr_Pressure@lemmy.ca
    541·
    8 months ago

    I fucking hate Phillips style so much.

    Never tried JIS though, Robertson is where it’s at.

      • klangcola@reddthat.com
        31·
        8 months ago

        What is the reason to use torx over Internal hex (Allen key)? Surely there must be a reason why it’s used

        When growing up it used to be that (internal) hex was for high strength but needed exact tool size, and Phillips/flat blade for low strength application with the benefit of any approximately sized tool will work.

        Seems to me torx is in this awkward in-between where it’s used for low-strength applications, but require exact tool size. Or it’s used interchangeably with hex, requiring two sets of tools available at the work site (not fun if the work site is 30 meters up some ladders)

    • Overzeetop@sopuli.xyz
      5·
      8 months ago

      But not #1, or most of #2, in common stainless alloys. Even dry film lubed and drill tip is insufficient to prevent the torque from exceeding the (relatively low) yield strength, leading to stripped screws from standard driving in any wood denser than about G=0.45. There’s simply not enough contact area to prevent it.

      • s_s@lemmy.one
        1·
        8 months ago

        Stainless fasteners are niche and require stainless tools, full-stop.

        Most fasteners are not stainless.

        • Overzeetop@sopuli.xyz
          2·
          8 months ago

          require stainless tools

          You really don’t want to use stainless tools as they will plastically deform. Roberson is just not that great for torque-transfer geometry; it’s advantages lie elsewhere.

          • s_s@lemmy.one
            1·
            8 months ago

            You really don’t want to use stainless tools as they will plastically deform

            They are made specifically for stainless fasteners.

            You’ll frequently find them in the toolbags of aerospace professionals and industrial electricians and they are really the only folks that deal with a lot of stainless fasteners.

            Bicycle and motorbike folks have lots of stainless hardware, too. And lots of time you’ll see folks blame JIS/Phillips on ruining their fasteners, but sometimes it’s just because they’re using toolsteel tools on stainless fasteners.

  • FakinUpCountryDegen@lemmy.world
    366·
    8 months ago

    90% of complaints about any screw head type is some jackass using the wrong driver like a P2 in a P3 head totally mystified as to why their shit stripped.

    • frezik@midwest.social
      28·
      8 months ago

      That’s not just user error, though. Phillips also makes it easy to use an undersized driver, and people will grab whatever they have handy. Torx doesn’t have that problem, but at the expense of needing a bunch of different drivers for different screws.

        • frezik@midwest.social
          4·
          8 months ago

          You’re suppose to have a bunch of drivers for Phillips. When you don’t, they strip. It’s not a real tradeoff.

          • Pinklink@lemm.ee
            1·
            8 months ago

            I mean, yeah, exactly. And right now I’ve got fucking loads of both and more so give me types that won’t strip pretty please

      • ForgotAboutDre@lemmy.world
        162·
        8 months ago

        Phillips was not designed to cam out. It cams out so people started saying it was designed to cam out.

        Phillips was designed to reduce cam out, which it does, compared to slotted.

        • Eufalconimorph@discuss.tchncs.de
          7·
          8 months ago

          Yep, it reduces cam-out. Not very well, but it does better than a slotted screw made by a drunk apprentice with a dremel being torqued with a flat-head prybar. Torx, Allen, and Robertson all reduce cam-out far more, but Phillips still sadly get used in new products.

        • s_s@lemmy.one
          3·
          8 months ago

          Phillips was designed to be simple to cut and self-centering, so it could be used on assembly lines. It exploded in popularity just as mass manufactured goods were becoming popular purchases.

          Later styles like square, Hex (cut) fasteners, or 12-point (both types) or Torx can create higher torque without slipping but are not centering the way Phillips is.

  • s_s@lemmy.one
    122·
    8 months ago

    Pozidriv > *

    Not only is it self-centering like phillips and JIS (eg the reason they are used in so many line-assembled manufactured goods) but it’s has superior contact like a Robertson (square drive) or hex or torx.

      • s_s@lemmy.one
        5·
        8 months ago

        Torx’s highest-in-class leverage without camming out gives it superiority in some applications (eg impact-rated deck screws), but if you had to choose one fastener head for everything, posidriv is it.

        Torx is not self-centering, and therefore inappropriate for many tasks including anything not hand-assembled. It is also susceptible to stripping out after rusting.