I aM nEuTrAl
Actually, the other side mostly wants things to stay the same. Their constituents, on the other hand, would like to see better healthcare, education, unions, and stronger safety nets. But since the other side aren’t fascists, their voters are stuck with them.
This right here ☝️. The grassroots democrats I could support. It’s the Chuck Schumers and John Fettermans that will undermine the party from within that make supporting democrats difficult.
There’s always a rotating villain.
Used to be Dianne Feinstein. Then it was Joe Manchin. Then it was that Sinema bitch. Now it’s Fetterman and Schumer.
And people just kind of ignore the pattern and pretend it isn’t a party-wide PR strategy.
Not speaking for anyone else, but I’m fully aware of what the Democratic Party stands for. Problem is, the alternative has gotten so much worse.
Before the current madness, there was a part of me aching to vote for someone crazy to come and hasten the act of burning this mess to the ground. Then I saw it, and got scared. Maybe that’s when I should’ve leaned in.
Then primary them.
The odds of us getting out of this with a revolution are vanishingly small.
The answer is going to be reforming the Democrat party by primarying the Schumers and the Fettermans out.
Party reformation has happened multiple times in American history and conservatives literally just did it in the worst way possible to the Republican party over the last decade or two.
Party reformation takes time. That is life.
Right, but in the mean time it makes any attempt to claim “The Democrats stand for [insert policy position]” a lie, because while an individual democrat may believe in those things, the part as a whole can’t agree on anything at all. They can’t even align themselves on their own platform, let alone apply pressure to the Republicans. At best they’re nothing but a speed break for more republican policy. You’re still getting republican policy, just slower, and they can’t move the needle in the other direction even if they win because they’ll simply surrender in advance.
Wasting more time and more money trying to slow the rate the US collapses into a burning train wreck is an exercise in futility. The only real solution is to try and build a “coalition of the willing” to preserve what is left and the Republicans drive the rest, screaming incoherently, off the cliff they’re headed for. Small scale organizing, networks to help move people to safety “underground railroad” style, to move material and finances in ways that circumvent federal control, create safe-havens that can resist federal encroachment and operate outside of federal regulation meant to break down resistance. Register some “Churches” that can provide physical plant and meeting grounds, as well as offer support services when federal support is ripped up. Build a nation within a nation.
Voting for Democrats isn’t going to stop this spiral. They have no vision, no will, no unity, and zero political capital to actually create change. Sure, vote blue to slow the bleeding, if you’re still allowed by next election, but as long as they’re a party so big tent they have no direction at all, they’re just a slower, more painful collapse.
A lot of world class dipshits on this very platform think both sides are equal. Getting pretty tired of reading
“Both sides are fascist, one’s just more open about it.”
Stupidest fucking sentiment I’ve ever had the displeasure of reading. Absolute lack of education and critical thinking skills to say shit like that.
I was banned from the lemmy.ml memes community for saying the Democrats are slightly better than Republicans. After saying it I needed to argue with 20 people at once, all with preprepared arguments, who were adamant that both sides are the same.
I’ve also recently seen that that community is extremely toxic in other ways.
The lack of critical thinking skills is when people cannot understand that one side is fascist and the other enables the fascists.
To many leftist, capitalist imperialism is just fascism in disguise, and they are entirely correct.
I don’t think they’re both equal, they’re certainly both shit.
How do you measure the quality of shit?
Let’s just say I wouldn’t let Maxine Waters or Mitch McConnell watch my dog
If “shittiness” was a binary, they’d definitely the same. However, in the real world it’s a spectrum that looks more like:
Beautiful!
Now, add some marionette strings to both parties, connect those strings to a billionaire’s hand and it will be a perfect representation!
With their proposed ideas, I’d mostly agree.
However, with the increasingly shittier Republicans they have compromised further and further into utter shit. They’ve tacked toward shitty, pretty hard in some cases, to try to lure some shitty votes their way… alienating those who want less shit. They’ve opted to take money from extremely shitty people because they have a lot of money but those people desire there to be more shit. The Democrats abandoned their less shitty ground repeatedly even when they managed to find some real leverage, unleashing torrents of shit for no apparent reason (unless they actually want more shit).
So yes, their campaign websites have a lot less shit on them than the Republicans, but in practice the party as a whole has either pushed for things to be much shittier or compromised their alleged ideals unnecessarily resulting in things being much shittier.
There are certainly diamonds in the shit. I don’t think it’s all of them, but current leadership is definitely way more shitty than they look. What concerns me is that every time we get rid of some small contingency of Democrats that are obviously bathing in shit and willing to open the floodgates for the Republicans, we always seem to find just enough of the remaining Democrats wiling to dive in and replace them. It gives the impression that, for a significant subset of them, their campaign slogans and alleged ideals are performative.
As “the other side” don’t speak for me. I want guillotines and a substantial redistribution of wealth until we no longer have billionaires.
Obviously the republicans are genuinely terrible people
But I’ll give you an equivalence that actually holds up
Both parties have their snouts in the trough and depend on huge levels of external funding which completely undermines your democracy
That is a problem that needs to be fixed
OK, fix it when the government isn’t on a bloodhunt for transgender people, to start with.
Correction: They SAY they want health care and education, get elected, and then spend their political capital making most people poorer, doing fascism, and genociding.
doing fascism
Lol. Can you describe how Democrats “do fascism”?
I keep seeing this stupid, counter-productive sentiment and have yet to have anyone actually explain it to me.
Meanwhile, I’m old enough to remember when I was poor and had NO healthcare and the Dems fought tooth and nail to get Obamacare passed and then I had affordable healthcare. Millions of other people can tell you the same, if you need a history lesson.
By supporting Israel.
Again.
Constructive comment. Perhaps read the thread before responding in the future. Thank you and have a lovely Friday.
Still better than Nazis.
Chopping off a finger is better than chopping off an arm.
Yeah that’s literally what living in the US was like
Perfect is the enemy of good.
Neither perfect nor good are in any capacity available anywhere in the US.
Let’s try aiming for “just a teeny tiny bit less evil, but still absolutely despicable”. This sounds realistic.
Evil is also the enemy of good and the lesser evil is still evil.
the lesser evil is still evil.
Ok. I pick the lesser evil.
Every fucking time.
Or don’t pick evil and pick good? There is always a choice.
I don’t know that I agree.
The only difference I see here is that, under Democrats, it’s primarily ICE and the cops doing the Nazi things and not CBP, and you’ll recall that after George Floyd was killed Biden used his next SOTU to publicly call for more police militarization.
Also, go look up who first appointed Tom Homan, for a very good example.
I don’t know that I agree.
Then you need a better education.
Of course.
Very constructive and insightful comment. Thank you.
the media is owned by private individuals with their own agenda.
To be honest what I really want is fully automated luxury gay space communism.
They won’t give us that either.
That’s fine, we’ll give it to them for free.
It isn’t theirs to give. It is ours to take.
Fully luxury automated gay space Communism. That way the abbreviation becomes almost an acronym. FLAGSC, rather than FALGSC
Unfortunately we are all out of name brand luxury gay space communism.
We do, however, have Temu deluxe ambiguous resource “sharing” managed by Grok, and an couple open packs of glow in the dark ceiling stars. Only $19.99 a month at 30% interest when you buy now, pay later.
Yes, but you can have my portion of gay
Just save it for later. Forever is a long time.
Ok, I just hope it doesn’t spoil. What is the shelf life of gay?
Indefinite! And on the way, you’ll discover new and amazing types of straight.
Sounds like a plan
Ive been told that its not gay in a 3 way, and with a homey in the middle theres some leeway.
Can you confirm? I dont want to run out of credits.
No, the media doesn’t think that, the owners of the media wants the media to say that they’re equal
The media is just a billionaire propaganda machine. They have to make both sides sound equally right so both sides keep fighting each other instead of fighting the billionaires causing all the problems.
Equal? Universal healthcare is derided as the delusions of radical extremists. A mere pipedream of anti-semitic tankies, if we’re talking the gambit of American media.
The democrats had the house, senate, and presidency for 4+ years. Where is that Healthcare?
Spoiler: Both sides are bad, they both get paid off. Its just that one side is really fucking honest with you right now … to the point where they commit crimes in public because no one will do anything about it.
And we should thank Trump for opening eyes of so many dumb people that thought otherwise. It had to get really bad before we see any changes. Though I see in comments many are still sucking off dems
Yes, being insane for Democrats is almost (but not really) as bad as being MAGA.
The democrats had the house, senate, and presidency for 4+ years
What years where these pray tell? I guess if you don’t mean “4+ consecutive years” but that would be silly wouldn’t it?
Also, why did you fail to mention the Supreme Court? Interesting.
No one said consecutive. That is rarely possible with the usual midterm losses. Biden had 2 and Obama had 2.
Lol ok
They’re not the other side that this post is talking about.
ROFLOL yeah it’s the Democrats fault we don’t have national healthcare. tHeY hAd foUR YeaRS WherE is It?? Smeared all over the soles of the Republicans shoes. That’s where it is.
Both sides are bad
Cool observation. Here’s a smiley face sticker and a lollipop.
Here’s another observation.
Both sides are NOT the same.
So, in a system where you WILL get one or the other for the foreseeable future, what would you consider to be the intelligent thing to do?
Also, you are wrong. Democrats haven’t held a trifecta for 4+ years since the 1960s. In recent memory their control has only lasted 2-3 years at a time, and you’ve also failed to take into account that many things require a supermajority in Congress to enact and Dem’s total control has typically been by a very thin margin.
Key Periods of Unified Democratic Control (White House + Senate + House):
2021–2023 (117th Congress): President Joe Biden, with narrow House and Senate majorities.
2009–2011 (111th Congress): President Barack Obama, passing the Affordable Care Act.
1993–1995 (103rd Congress): President Bill Clinton’s first two years.
1961–1969 (87th–90th Congresses): Presidents John F. Kennedy and Lyndon B. Johnson.
1933–1947 (73rd–79th Congresses): President Franklin D. Roosevelt and the start of Truman’s term.
Where is that Healthcare?
When I was young and broke Obama, during one of those windows of control, gave me affordable healthcare when I had none and he had to fight tooth and nail with Republicans to get it.
You really need to do your homework before you post things on the internet that other people who don’t do their homework will just accept as fact. It really doesn’t help our situation.
This argument is either based on ignorance or bad faith.
https://www.beaconjournal.com/story/news/2012/09/09/when-obama-had-total-control/985146007/
“Did President Obama have “total control” of Congress? Yes, for 4 entire months. And it was during that very small time window that Obamacare was passed in the Senate with 60 all-Democratic votes.”
The healthcare bill written by Republican Mitt Romney that didn’t have universal healthcare and ended up being a handout to health insurance companies? That bill?
Were you not following the back and forth fight that went on back then for him to try to get anything through? Yeah it’s shit but it’s a lot better than the nothing there was. It was progress and if this country had actual adults in it instead of a bunch of emotional children and corrupt politicians then things could continue to progress.
corrupt politicians
Like the dems.
if this country had actual adults in it instead of a bunch of emotional children
Blaming the voters. The endpoint of every democratic argument.
Voters and non voters alike are ultimately responsible for the political makeup of the country, yeah.
I like how you make the most basic truthful statement possible and people still downvote you.
Not a great sign for the future.
Like the dems.
Yeah, cuz both sides are equally corrupt.
Two questions.
-
Are you aware that reality is all sorts of imperfect and there will ALWAYS be corruption in political parties?
-
Are you aware that for the foreseeable future, and most likely for the remainder of your life, you will have Dems or Repubs in control?
So with those in mind, what good do you think it does to whine about a party having corruption when all parties will always have corruption and it’s our duty to make the best decision within that reality? Such as making sure the WAY, WAY, WAY less corrupt party is in control and not the WAY, WAY, WAY more corrupt party.
Blaming the voters.
Why wouldn’t they be to blame? How do you think the president and members of Congress got there? We live in a nation that willingly elected a convicted felon and adjudicated rapist who ran a fraudulent university and charity and already had one massively failed presidency under his belt. Not to mention the open bigotry and obviously low IQ.
This IS a country full of child-like adults, and our government is a testament to that. Of course voters are to blame. We made this happen.
-
The person you are responding to was probably still breast feeding during Obama’s presidency. So they’re likely completely unaware that before Obamacare millions of people just didn’t have healthcare and that Obama had to fight like hell with Republicans just to get it done.
Millions of people still don’t have healthcare under the ACA.
The ACA was based on a healthcare bill by Mitt Romney.
You’re literally using a republican bill passed by democrats as evidence for the parties not being the same.
You are responding to someone who doesn’t do his homework and who is being upvoted by other people who do not do their homework.
You literally said dems havent had the House, Senate, and presidency … then posted the Biden era where he had the house, senate, and pres. You are acting and posting like AI.
Dont argue with me. Go argue with history …
117th Congress (2021–2023): Democrats gained control of the Senate (via Georgia runoffs) and held the House, paired with President Biden’s election. The 4-Year Period: This 4-year stretch saw shifting majorities in the Senate, but the Democratic caucus maintained a working majority to control the legislative agenda from 2021-2023, while holding the House from 2019-2023, marking a four-year tenure of overall legislative
You said they had the house, senate, AND presidency for 4+ years. The house yes, presidency yes, senate no. Nothing becomes law without the senate. Your claim was not accurate.
Argue with Google. Not me. Biden had the house and senate.
You sound like AI.
Do you remember Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema? Remember how they kind of held up everything?
Why weren’t they censured? Everything plays out EXACTLY like big business wants it. If you dont understand that corporations have nearly ful control of politics then we have nothing to discuss. Here is the summary … both sides bow down to billionaires and corporations.
Sure rotating villain and all that. Yes generally both sides serve their corporate rulers, but the progressives still caucus with Democrats, so they’re slightly better and should always be voted for if the alternative is literal fascists. FPTP is the main problem in the electoral process.
We need to keep repeating this, it’s a CLASS war.
It’s always been a class war. Sometimes we do some of the fighting but the rich are always fighting.
No war but the class war
i felt embarassed trying to be a centrist at one point because i figured i should move where their goal posts were. they’re trying to normalize shifting goalposts and they know it. unfortunately there’s no actual social punishment for this.
both sides are bad. One is just infinitely worse.
People refusing to vote for the lesser of two evils is what got us the worse evil!
People refusing to vote for the lesser of two evils is what got us the worse evil!
What are you even talking about? Biden got elected and enabled the modern-day holocaust lol. There is no “lesser evil”, there are many heads to the same hydra: capitalism.
Uhh yeah Biden bad but things would be less bad if Harris had won, doesn’t make her good, what point are you trying to make
Less bad for you, maybe. Ask the people murdered by the Genocide Joe - Holocaust Harris administration if things would’ve been better for them. Ask the survivors if Harris being elected will bring back their dead family.
The point I’m trying to make is that you are unconsciously a white supremacist (yes, even if you are not white) who is willing to sign your name off to endorse the ethnic-based mass-murder of brown people overseas in order to protect your own privilege and comfort. That’s “lesser evil”. Try fighting all evil instead.
Aside from all that, Harris promised the “most lethal” military in the world - that means one thing, “killing the most people” - so on top of addressing your weak, white supremacist premise, I’m going to have to disagree with your weak liberal conclusion as well.
Thank you for having critical thinking skills and the patience to actually type it out for people who most likely won’t even bother to read it in good faith.
lol yeah I used to do audio transcription so I have like a ~100 WPM typing rate… I can waste some internet words
I have neuropathy that has affected my fingers, my PC is set up on a coffee table in a corner cause that’s the only space I have for it, and I usually only browse through Boost on my phone anyways. So, typing things out is a pain and I usually just point to authors and books to read.
well fuck me for prioritizing the genocides happening in my own country over the genocides happening on the other side of the planet.
edit: responded to the wrong comment, but the one I meant to respond to was also by you so I’m leaving it.
What’s happening in America is terrible but if you’re comparing it to what is happening in Palestine as being even close to equivalent, you are a chronically out-of-touch and overprivileged liberal.
Blaming voters is just another way of wishing reality was different. Lots of people are telling you exactly how they are going to act but you are asking those without power to accommodate those with power. That’s a choice and it says a lot about how you perceive power and it’s authority.
