The thing is that the agreement they linked apply to the official YouTube API (the one that you have to register for).
Invidious uses the InnerTube (a completely different “API” used by all official YouTube clients). Invidious basically acts like a web browser that access the YouTube website. It is therefore not required to agree to any TOS/policies.
That makes Invidious’ readme (which claims no YouTube APIs at all) disingenuous at the very least.
More likely, you need a lawyer. I read that TOS, and I think it applies to any YouTube API endpoint, internal or otherwise. Best of luck, because I agree with Invidious’ goals…
Side note: a browser communicating with YouTube would be communicating with youtube. Not with com.google.android.youtube.api or whatever. What I’m seeing is that Invidious tries to act like the youtube service itself, which is very different from acting like a browser.
Edit: I’ve spent about 5 minutes looking for EU case law about this but haven’t been able to find anything except un-cited references to an exception for “producing interoperable devices.” Do you have sources? In the United States, at least, “clean room reverse engineering” has a pretty specific definition that follows four steps:
A (team of) engineers reverse-engineers an existing product, in this case, the YouTube internal API.
Those engineers write a specification of the product’s (outwardly-visible) behavior.
A lawyer reviews that specification to ensure that it does not contain anything infringing on any copyrights relevant to the product.
A separate (team of) engineers re-implement the product according to the specification.
I don’t think what you’re doing meets that definition. You achieved step 1, and possibly step 2, and then didn’t attempt the others. You reverse engineered something for the purpose of using it - but you haven’t actually reimplemented it, which is the “clean room” part of “clean room reverse engineering.” Re-implementing it would presumably require building your own server for actually hosting videos on Invidious instances.
There’s quite a history of this term in the US, going back to even before Intel vs. NEC, when it was very much in the public eye. As part of arguing that case, NEC, following this procedure, produced a clean-room re-implementation of Intel’s popular 8008 microprocessor’s microcode. To do that, they had to re-write all of the microcode from scratch. Not figure out how to inject the 8008’s microcode into their own hardware design.
Anyway, all that aside, even if what you’re doing did meet the conditions of clean-room reverse engineering, I don’t think it would fall under the (again, un-cited, so maybe we’re talking about different things) interoperability exception in the EU. You’re not producing a device/service that needs to be interoperable with other devices/services. You’re producing a service with an explicit goal of operating differently.
To be clear, IANAL, but your reasoning seems shaky.
“Valid” and “disingenuous” mean very different things. How would you feel about editing that README point to be explicit that you use an unofficialundocumented YouTube API?
For the record, I don’t think “InnerTube” would be considered unofficial, legally. It’s authorized by YouTube, since they made and use it internally. That’s the definition of “official.” This is a small part of why I think the wording in the TOS makes the TOS apply to “InnerTube.” What makes you think that it doesn’t?
The policy only applies to the API you can get “officially”.
Repeating this doesn’t make it true.
I don’t see the TOS saying it doesn’t apply to internal APIs, in fact it seems quite clear that it does. Let’s read a bit more of the TOS then, emphasis mine:
The “YouTube API Services” means (i) the YouTube API services (e.g., YouTube Data API service and YouTube Reporting API service) made available by YouTube including those YouTube API services made available on the YouTube Developer Site (as defined below), [omitted items (Ii)-(iv)]. By accessing and using the YouTube API Services, and in return for receiving the benefits of the YouTube API Services provided to you by YouTube, you agree to be bound by the Agreement (as defined below).
It says “including” the APIs you are calling “official” but nowhere does it limit itself to those. It says it applies to any YouTube API made available by YouTube… which the “InnerTube” certainly seems to fit.
Also, why do you keep putting “officially” in quotes? You’re not quoting it out of the TOS, the word “officially” does not appear in that excerpt defining the YouTube API Services. Do you have a different source that you’re quoting from?
Hello,
The thing is that the agreement they linked apply to the official YouTube API (the one that you have to register for).
Invidious uses the InnerTube (a completely different “API” used by all official YouTube clients). Invidious basically acts like a web browser that access the YouTube website. It is therefore not required to agree to any TOS/policies.
That makes Invidious’ readme (which claims no YouTube APIs at all) disingenuous at the very least.
More likely, you need a lawyer. I read that TOS, and I think it applies to any YouTube API endpoint, internal or otherwise. Best of luck, because I agree with Invidious’ goals…
Side note: a browser communicating with YouTube would be communicating with youtube. Not with com.google.android.youtube.api or whatever. What I’m seeing is that Invidious tries to act like the youtube service itself, which is very different from acting like a browser.
Edit: I’ve spent about 5 minutes looking for EU case law about this but haven’t been able to find anything except un-cited references to an exception for “producing interoperable devices.” Do you have sources? In the United States, at least, “clean room reverse engineering” has a pretty specific definition that follows four steps:
I don’t think what you’re doing meets that definition. You achieved step 1, and possibly step 2, and then didn’t attempt the others. You reverse engineered something for the purpose of using it - but you haven’t actually reimplemented it, which is the “clean room” part of “clean room reverse engineering.” Re-implementing it would presumably require building your own server for actually hosting videos on Invidious instances.
There’s quite a history of this term in the US, going back to even before Intel vs. NEC, when it was very much in the public eye. As part of arguing that case, NEC, following this procedure, produced a clean-room re-implementation of Intel’s popular 8008 microprocessor’s microcode. To do that, they had to re-write all of the microcode from scratch. Not figure out how to inject the 8008’s microcode into their own hardware design.
Anyway, all that aside, even if what you’re doing did meet the conditions of clean-room reverse engineering, I don’t think it would fall under the (again, un-cited, so maybe we’re talking about different things) interoperability exception in the EU. You’re not producing a device/service that needs to be interoperable with other devices/services. You’re producing a service with an explicit goal of operating differently.
To be clear, IANAL, but your reasoning seems shaky.
The InnerTube isn’t the YouTube API, far from it. So it’s still valid.
“Valid” and “disingenuous” mean very different things. How would you feel about editing that README point to be explicit that you use an
unofficialundocumented YouTube API?For the record, I don’t think “InnerTube” would be considered unofficial, legally. It’s authorized by YouTube, since they made and use it internally. That’s the definition of “official.” This is a small part of why I think the wording in the TOS makes the TOS apply to “InnerTube.” What makes you think that it doesn’t?
The fact that it isn’t “the YouTube API”. The policy only applies to the API you can get “officially”.
Repeating this doesn’t make it true.
I don’t see the TOS saying it doesn’t apply to internal APIs, in fact it seems quite clear that it does. Let’s read a bit more of the TOS then, emphasis mine:
It says “including” the APIs you are calling “official” but nowhere does it limit itself to those. It says it applies to any YouTube API made available by YouTube… which the “InnerTube” certainly seems to fit.
Also, why do you keep putting “officially” in quotes? You’re not quoting it out of the TOS, the word “officially” does not appear in that excerpt defining the YouTube API Services. Do you have a different source that you’re quoting from?