I’m not sure how to phrase it. I want to be more flirty with my friends. You know, like touchy, cuddling, and stuff, but not as a means to pursue them sexually or romantically. I can’t think of a way to phrase this other than “being flirty” versus “flirting” (let me know if you have a better word). I just want to have that physical contact and flirtatious banter but not in a way that makes them feel as if I’m trying to get them to sleep with me or fall in love or something.
Background, I’m a happily married man in my early 30s. My wife and I are bisexual, I’m still mostly closeted and she’s out. My wife and I have discussed boundaries and we both know what each other’s limits are. We did this because some folks we are friends with had a horrible experience with trying to have an open relationship but one of them kept breaking the rules they set forth so at some point the conversation came to what our limits are. To be totally clear, we aren’t pursuing an open relationship. The limits we have are basically touching other people (not genitals) and kissing (not on lips) is fine and don’t start to hang out with people “romantically” (a sort of “know it when I see it” thing). The two of us have said how we want to be more physical with our friends and even flirty at times because we both like to express love like that but we were raised in the Bible Belt in Christian purity culture and have a hard time figuring out how to do this. For some people it just feels so natural.
Some examples of things I might want to do are
- Hold hands or put my arm around them
- Make flirty remarks about their outfits being attractive
- Kiss ya homie good night (I say this as a joke mostly but haha jk, unless?)
An obvious answer may be “just ask your friends, you had the same conversation with your wife” but some missing context is that this conversation with her culminated with the boundaries discussion but has been happening slowly for a few years. We’ve tossed the idea of open relationships around and both decided against it because we don’t believe either of us would be able to not get jealous. I’m very concerned that just asking something like this out of nowhere would seem creepy and off putting. On top of that we do have some friends who have seemed to express they wouldn’t like this. Obviously I’m not going to do this to people who I believe wouldn’t like it, but it concerns me that more people have this opinion than I think.
So, I guess the questions are,
- Have you tried to do this with friends? If so, how did it go?
- Where would you personally draw the line between “flirty” and “flirting”?
- Have you ever tried to ask platonic friends about this? How did it go?
… how good are you at picking up subtle signals from people? Have you ever been accused of being dense?
This is a frankly necessary skill to have in order to avoid causing trouble for others and yourself. Consider it a hard prerequisite, requiring intermediate-level proficiency, no less.
The line is almost always communicated through eye contact. Flirty is usually no-minimal eye contact, passing glances only. “Let’s fuck” is sustained. I’m mildly concerned that you have not picked this up from pop culture, if you just wing it you will probably send mixed signals and piss people off, and likely harass some folks along the way.
Violating people’s personal space and wishes for respect is something only children can practice with no consequences. Just remember that.
Have you ever been accused of being dense?
Rude. lol. But on a more serious note, not really with regards to social contexts, no.
[Picking up subtle signals] is a necessary skill
Yeah, I totally agree. I feel confident that I could tell if someone is unhappy or uncomfortable with an advance like this. I’m more curious was sort of things folks feel are acceptable first steps towards being more physically intimate. Take this intentionally contrived example (only for illustration), you have a friend who you’ve never touched then one day you kiss them on the lips when you say good bye. Obviously this crosses a line and I think most people would agree this is a bad idea. It’s not even about judging their reaction at that point, it’s like “why the fuck did you think that would be okay?” Compare that to giving a friend a hug goodbye. A much more acceptable “first step” towards being more physically intimate with friends. Many people hug their friends goodbye. But still, just to be explicit, you should still make sure they feel comfortable. If they seemed off or hesitant then they might not like giving hugs and you shouldn’t press them to.
I’m mildly concerned that you have not picked this up from pop culture
Media typically depicts highly unrealistic situations. That’s what makes the stories interesting. So no, I don’t really follow what you’re getting at by that.
Violating people’s personal space and wishes for respect is something only children can practice with no consequences. Just remember that.
Yeah, that’s why I’m not just jumping into doing this. I thought the post was pretty clear that I’m both aware of and want to avoid the risk of coming across like a creep. Maybe you mistook me when I said I’m hesitant to even ask friends if they’re open to this (for fear of seeming creepy) and thought I want to immediately give them a peck on the cheek or something? If so, then no, definitely not! I’m well aware of potential consequences and even apart from consequences I just don’t want to make my friends uncomfortable. I’ve had a friend in the past who really crossed some lines in that regard.
I guess I can just look at what that guy did and avoid it lol, but with him it was more like he was trying to get my wife to cheat on me with him and he was emotionally manipulative and abusive (saying he was suicidal so she’d call him but doing it everyday, etc.). So not really the most relevant example to be honest.
Cool. Was just impressing you with the importance of certain critical details. Your initial post was woefully insufficient to allay fears, and you came off sounding much like you wanted, deep down, to emulate some of these examples you describe, and were merely seeking instruction on how to become more proficient in a culpably deniable way. This was concerning. You’ve now explained yourself well enough for me, though. Now you just sound mildly out of touch and wanting to learn a new skill, which is extremely common and not really a big deal.
While we certainly should not seek to encounter the same kinds of situations we find in film, I’m sure you’ll agree that they do employ pretty accurate representations of human communication, particularly in more serious films. If they didn’t, we wouldn’t really be able to follow them. They can be useful in this way, even, you could consider a foreign language learner, using films to progress their ability to converse. You, similarly, are looking to learn a new language of sorts. Film could be useful to you as well, in the same way.
To the meat of your question, there’s sort of an escalation to it. You start with small comments/jokes/pointed glances, see how that gets received. If they flirt back, then or later, you’re usually fine to be a little more flirty with that individual. People that laugh or flirt back are enjoying the flirtation itself, as the innocuous game that it often is. They don’t really care. If people do not specifically respond positively, though, then its probably best to allow them their space. Maybe try again later if your delivery was meh or something. Obviously if you get any kind of wtf glance, or freeze up, or stiffen, or any kind of discomfort really, you need to treat that person with proper respect from there on out. Even a formal apology for flirting can be appropriate if you actually bothered them. This is classy, and helps show that you’re fine with being more formal and respectful.
There is another escalation to physical flirting, and you need to basically repeat the process with some innocuous but unnecessary touch. An arm is ideal, it’s very neutral. Beware though, this is a level of escalation that can begin to create expectations in the other person, as most people do not go this far unless they are in a more serious pursuit. Some very flirty people do though, and they’re fine. They tend to be very socially savvy people though, not intermediate-levels of people-reading, but expert. At least that’s how they seem to me, I’m not that flirty myself unless I’m getting a little more serious. I’m a stage 1 flirter I guess, when just goofing off and having fun with someone. Most people are fine with stage 1 banter, so long as you’re their type and their SO isn’t standing there.
Oh, last thing. I’d start with strangers and acquaintances, not friends you used to be normal with. Flirting with friends in general can be a bit of a minefield, personal relationships simply benefit from clarity. Go flirt with a bartender or something, they’re extremely used to it and will probably give you a hard time. Get a little practice. And you can tip them extra for their trouble.
“I’m very concerned that just asking something like this out of nowhere would seem creepy and off putting.”
Everything you’re describing is creepy and off-putting. This entire post makes my skin crawl.
Please don’t do any of this. Just drop it. This is fucking weird and can only go badly.
What the fuck??
not helpful.
Disagree, “what the fuck” is exactly how people will respond to whatever the fuck OP is trying to accomplish.
