The instance list has a couple of recommended sites at the top. They are defined in this file and seperated by language. For most languages there is only one recommendation or none at all, so you can simply add yours by making a pull request.
In case of English, the situation is a bit different. The current recommended instances (beehaw.org and sopuli.xyz) are already quite large and would be shown near the top of the list anyway. So it makes sense to recommend smaller instances instead.
To be recommended, an instance should meet these requirements:
- It should be a general purpose instance
- At least one member of the admin team needs to be in the Instance admin chat to coordinate with other admins
- The admin team needs to be prepared for a large influx of users, both in terms of hardware and moderation
We can use this thread to discuss which instances should be recommended. There is no maximum number of recommendations, but it should be an even number to work with the desktop layout.
On a side note, the instance list itself could use many improvements such as showing more details about instances or using different sorting methods. If you are a programmer or web designer, you can contribute to improve the website.
Edit: If you are a Lemmy admin and want your instance to be recommended, go ahead and open a pull request for this file. Developers can also contribute in the same repo to improve join-lemmy.org.
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I’m not sure I can add much value to the recommendations themselves, but I do believe the page needs to explain in relatively simply terms that that joining a particular instance isn’t necessarily hindering access to any content, otherwise people will generally choose the most populous.
the page should also not show the users/month per instance
I agree. I know I initially joined lemmy.ml (before moving to a smaller instance) because of both these reasons. I felt I would miss out on content and that I should join the biggest community.
It already says that at the top of the instances page
I’ll be submitting my instance to be considered to the recommended list. I’ve thrown a nice amount of resources at my lemmy instance and i’m pretty excited to see how it will handle the extra load that is expected!
Perfect, can you make a pull request?
Got this completed! Looks like the merge request was accepted and merged into the main already. Thanks for giving the heads up.
Will have this done before the end of the day! I will be adding support for the French language as well to accommodate french speaking individuals as well!
the dude abides
I think my server lemmy.world would qualify :-)
Great, can you make a pull request?
Ohh, never done that before. Should I create a fork, edit the file, and then submit as PR?
(yes)
Lemmy try that.
OK I submitted the PR.
I can’t access your instance from my instance (feddit.de), although my instance is linked to yours. Does anyone have an idea what this could be?
Hmm no idea, I see your instance in https://lemmy.world/instances and I can find articles on your server in Search. What can’t you access?
I don’t know if you just rearranged something, but it works now. I previously wanted to subscribe to !mildlyinfuriating@lemmy.world from my instance, but it didn’t show up in the search. No idea what was going on there.
Oh, that happens very often. When you search first time it doesn’t find it. Then in the background apparently it fetches it so when you search again, you’ll find it.
The admin team needs to be prepared for a large influx of users, both in terms of hardware and moderation
Reddit has almost half a billion users, so until there is horizontal scaling I would argue no instance is ready.
One criterion i would add is economic viability, Lets look at beehaw, it has about 1000 monthly active users and according to opencollective got about 1000$ this month (for some reason the opencollective page of lemmy can’t show this stat), that puts him at the ARPU (active revenue per user) of about 1$ a user which is similar to reddit that has ARPU of about $1.02 (and was much lower in 2021, about 0.5$).
There is horizontal scaling through federation. Even if lemmy.ml, beehaw.org and lemmy.one go down, users can still join instances like sh.itjust.works. The instance list on join-lemmy.org works as a load balancer.
That just creates a problem of choice overload, I use to manage a forum, managing a community is hard, If there is a instance that is really good (possibly one that is “democratic”) Most people would like it to scale, Just figuring out the rules for every instance and what other instances it blocks is hard, I already saw complaints on reddit about having to pick a server.
I also think it is a good idea to have paid moderators, what happens when some gets pissed decides to post some terrible picture to punish the mods? on facebook they have a therapist for the people reviewing reports .
Regarding sh.itjust.works , in my culture i think swearing is considered more of a bad behavior compared to the US, are we sure that is not cultural blindness having that listed as a recommended instance?
If your goal were wider adoption, having a big “sign up” button (with the server name on/next to it) that links to a random “recommended” general instance could be best. Put a “sign up on a different instance” button next to it, and a list of instances below that.
Of course - that’s IF it’s your goal.
I think Mastodon does this, but just a static link to mastodon.social instead of randomly rotating it.
Edit: that’s what they do on the app - but not joinmastodon.org
Instances have different topics and moderation, so it should be left to each person which one they prefer to join.
And it would be - no choice is being removed. It’s more of a “I’m not sure what all this is… I just want to join lemmy” button. But I know that perhaps that’s not completely in line with the core/original culture of the Fediverse. But a lot of people have incorrect assumptions on what federation is, if indeed they know anything about it at all. This leads to decision paralysis and confusion. People overthink which instance to join, at least among the open “general” instances.
And it would need to be explicitly opt-in for each server… I don’t think BeeHaw would be open to this for example.
I agree with your way of thinking. I believe a lot of people would be open to recreating an account on an instance that vibes with them more once they understand how it all works too.
I did that about 3 or 4 times already and only a couple of them were by accident!
If your goal were wider adoption, having a big “sign up” button (with the server name on/next to it) that links to a random “recommended” general instance could be best. Put a “sign up on a different instance” button next to it, and a list of instances below that.
I think this is an excellent idea
Our server on slrpnk.net can very likely take some more users, but I am pretty new to hosting Lemmy and it’s currently only me that has some time to managing the server and approve applications.
So maybe better not to add it directly to the recommended instances list.
I was trying to edit my comment and accidentally deleted it! D’oh!
If your goal were wider adoption, having a big “sign up” button that links to a random “recommended” general instance could be best (with the url/name clearly on the button). Put a “sign up on a different instance” button next to it, and a list of instances below that.
Of course - that’s IF it’s your goal.
I think Mastodon does this, but just a static link to mastodon.social instead of randomly rotating it.
Edit: that’s what they do on the app - but not joinmastodon.org
FYI you can restore deleted comments by clicking the delete icon again.
Oh hey thanks
This was @nutomic@lemmy.ml’s original reply
Those are solid requirements to be listed on joinlemmy.org and I would also add another one about moderation policies prohibiting racism, sexism, anti-LGBTQ+ bigotry, Islamophobia, etc. Otherwise, if a user joins an instance that the “official” page recommends and discovers it’s racists / sexist / etc, they’ll see it as a problem with #lemmy as a whole, as opposed to just one bad instance.
And as we’ve seen on Mastodon, if a Black user goes to a site where racism is tolerated and quickly encounters racist sh*t, they leave and tell their friends; ditto for trans, queer, Muslim, etc. users having bad initial experiences. Once that happens a bunch of times the reputation becomes hard to shake. Much better to steer people to sites where they’re less likely to have a bad experience!
Good point
Ideally the recommended instances section wouldn’t be static. It would put a different instance in prime position for each user that visits… a poor mans load balancing I guess.
The order of recommended instances is randomized, there is a different one at the top each time you reload.
That works… hadn’t realised it was randomized with only two recommended.
Controversial idea: I think we should remove the “users per month” number on the instance list. It’s confusing to newbies and encourages people to join a “large” instance when the number doesn’t really correlate with actual server capacity.
Edit: And don’t display the ones with 1 or fewer users. They are obviously private single user ones. If someone wants to start a public one, they’ll be able to come get 2 or 3 others to join up and they’ll pop onto the list.
Yea, when I looked for an instance to join, the activ user number discouraged me and I thought that these instances are basically dead. Maby just a baar without numbers just saying very activ - unactiv would be better.
Same here. The numbers looked sooo low that I was thinking that everything is dead, but it is not. Though I did go to sopuli due to being Finnish but anyway.
Exactly. Or allow the instance owners to specify large, medium or small, depending on whether or not they have the capacity and resources for more people.
Contributions welcome, the repo is linked above.
Okay, I’ve made the changes locally, but before I put up a PR, do you agree to these changes?
I already opened a PR to remove instances with less than 5 users. Anyway go ahead and open a PR to remove the active count, it makes sense to me.
smaller general purpose instances such as sh.itjust.works
I’ve stood up aussie.zone primarily for Australians, but open to anyone. Same as poVoq, its just me at this stage… but I’ve disabled community creation.
I think we should add the following criteria to instances at the VERY TOP that are recommended to new users:
- The instances does not define an
allowedlist of instances - Downvotes are enabled
- NSFW content is allowed
- Users can create new communities
…otherwise new users (eg from reddit) are not going to use lemmy because it won’t match their expectations.
Personally, I was pretty disenchanted by my experience on lemmy when I first joined. I had to create accounts on like 5 different instances before I found one that worked (that’s why I created the comparison table of lemmy instances).
Most new users won’t have that perseverance. If, for example, they see there’s no downvotes on the “recommended” instance, they’ll probably give up and leave lemmy.
I strongly disagree with #2 through #4.
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Just because redditors expect downvotes doesn’t make them good. When Hexbear removed downvotes, the community feel improved dramatically; downvotes both promote toxic debatebro behavior (by making people upset when they catch a wave of downvotes) and allow cowards to attack people silently from the shadows, without having to actually state their shitty views and be criticized for them.
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NSFW content tends to alienate people. Besides, there’s no way to tell via code whether an instance allows NSFW content or just allows people to mark content as NSFW (two very different things).
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Yeah because that was such a positive aspect of Reddit, just ask violentacrez.
- Downvotes are important to ensure quality content. It allows the community address statements made by a user based on objectively incorrect (mis)information. This feature is an important reason why many reddit users aren’t on Mastodon. Also, democracy is important.
- Recommended Instances shouldn’t wholesale block content just because it’s NSFW. As you say, policy on what NSFW content is allowed is distinct from the instance enabling NSFW content.
- People being able to create and moderate their own communities is positive
If an instance (eg Hexbear) wants to deviate from this, that’s fine. That’s what the Fediverse is all about :) But we shouldn’t recommend those instances to new users as it will cause new user attrition.
I don’t agree that there should be strictures that enforce similarity to Reddit on instances if they want to be recommended. You’ve apparently been using Lemmy for three days now, based on your git repo history and your top-level comment in this thread. As a longtime Lemmy user, allow me to point out that Lemmy is not, and should not seek to be, exactly like Reddit. To enforce that would be to stifle potential avenues of improvement (like, as I’ve mentioned, removing downvotes).
Also, growth for growth’s sake is not something I think should be sought after; your policies seem to be entirely focused on growth with no concern for quality or community, which I don’t agree with.
Honestly I’m not sure I’ll stick to lemmy if the amount of content doesn’t grow. And I’m sure I’m not alone. I’m here for news, and there’s very little coverage of world events on lemmy (though that has already noticeably improved as our userbase grows).
I do want lemmy to grow, but not for growth’s sake. I want it to grow so the content (news article submissions and quality comments about those articles) grows.
If you’re a liberal, as most Redditors are, you probably won’t like it much, but Hexbear.net is far more active, and has plenty of news posted. (Keep in mind that “liberal” here covers all of the US political spectrum that doesn’t qualify as fascist; i.e. moderate republicans are liberals too. Hexbear is a communist instance.) It’s not mentioned on join-lemmy yet because it’s a fork, but there are efforts ongoing to merge back to upstream so federation is possible (one of the main roadblocks is the much-higher volume of activity, which is uncovering bugs that don’t show up under lighter loads).
I hope to see that beautiful theme on Lemmy <3
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- The instances does not define an
Would you consider adding Kbin instances? Or is that not ‘lemmy’ enough?
Its a different project, wouldnt make sense to send people there from the official Lemmy website. Besides the list is built by calling the Lemmy API so it wont work with kbin on a technical level.
Its a different project
But its still fully compatible with lemmy communities, i see it more of a client to lemmy rather than a different project.
Does the Mastodon website list Pleroma or Friendica instances?
Kbin instances should probably be listed on kbin’s onboarding site.
@nutomic certainly szmer.info, one of the largest instances for many years, and the only one in Polish
