folks out there, who do these things performatively especially online to gain some social points or something
I actually think that you thinking this is a problem, is a large part of the problem. People refuse to recognize that other people might just have higher or different standards than them, and think it must be in bad faith. This leads to people who generally agree being fizzled out by all the other people they feel are speaking in bad faith (and there are many that are trying to support non leftist opinions tbf), and leads to leftists ending up being unable to realize that they are allies even if they don’t perfectly align. TBF its kinda hard to see someone shitting on you (as they think you’re a baddie with the fizzled out feather light triggers), but we kinda have to try to figure out how to do that, because otherwise, being a shitty human being is just a winning formula when they have a much easier time forming alliances because they can base their entire identities around hating some people for no good reason.
Points are meaningless here mate what are you on about. These spaces are one of the few where you don’t need to worry about social points and can speak plainly. Which is why I can tell you that your defence reflex that urges you to attack the messenger instead of thinking about what was said has flipped.
And veggies are worse. Premeditated Carnism. Always butting in with their irrelevant opinions on animal rights.
For real, I think it’s due to the nature of this being an Indi alternative platform. It is filled with extremists and people who get kicked out of other places.
Remember, the first real big explosion in users came from when reddit restricted its API. So, by definition, a bunch of angsty users resistant to change and intolerant of opposing viewpoints.
During that original exodus, people remarked how friendly and tolerant and how people were willing to have constructive debate here. In reality, they were all united under their intolerance and hate for reddit.
Well, I am not fully in agreement there as I myself came here due to those restrictions but that is mostly because I primarily interact with reddit through boost and having it just suddenly get cut off was pretty shity. Not wanting to move platforms doesn’t really come with the same assessment of the person as you are saying. This is on top of API restrictions being something annoying to me as a scientists so I’m happy to not bother much with reddit anymore.
I think the issue is far more related to the other channels which pull in members. Lemmy users are probably more likely to be those who are either hobby enthusists in self hosting, people who are strong pro piracy supporters, people from political extremists groups (in particular leftists groups due to the history of the platform), or those from marginal communities. You also have the big group of people who were barred from other platforms, like the API restriction or the far worse group of people banned from reddit which people will post about proudly regardless of if that ban was reasonable or not.
I like Lemmy a lot, but it’s like any indi space, both filled with great unique things and things that make me want to travel the Australian outback without gas or water.
Your point is that people who left a platform because it made decisions they disagreed with don’t like it anymore? Shocking
Reddit is still the best place to go for a lot of niche communities you can’t really find anywhere else. That doesn’t change the fact that it has a lot of issues that stem from both the community culture there and the C-suite execs calling the shots, making it worse at every turn in pursuit of profit.
You’ll find I have similar opinions of most large social media companies. I just don’t talk about them as much because they were never appealing to me in the first place. Reddit had its problems dating wayy back but I enjoyed it for what it offered. You gotta draw the line somewhere, and I drew mine at the API shenanigans
Given that we are a social species, that sounds like a terrible way to get literally anything you want accomplished by anyone else.
More than that, it absolutely sounds like you hate people given the vitriol you spat at that person who clearly agrees with you a majority of the way.
You also, even if you don’t care about social norms clearly understand the difference between not, for instance, participating in a silly tradition, and being unnecessarily and unhelpfully rude and aggressive.
The veggie? I view them further away from vegan ideologically than the average person. It’s not an ethical stance it’s an aversion to flesh and/or trying to shift responsibility away from themselves.
And it wasn’t vitriol I just said she views animals as products so no surprise she doesn’t see an issue?
The silly tradition I don’t participate is in speaking to people like they’re too dumb to hear the truth. That’s how I learned.
Believing that animals should have basic rights, at least some degree of sovereignty; and the dignity to not be systematically confined, in constant abuse and outright torture, forcibly bred, exploited and enslaved in every possible way, to have their byproducts extracted to the detriment of their own health, and finally to be slaughtered on a scale that puts every other human atrocity to shame - is not a fucking purity test, it’s a god damn moral baseline.
But they’re really not. The harms and atrocities that come from dairy and eggs are arguably worse than meat itself, and the former industries drive the latter to some extent because it’s not profitable to care for animals for the duration of their natural lifespan.
Vegetarianism is neither ideologically or functionally different than any other form of animal commodification.
The harms and atrocities that come from dairy and eggs are arguably worse than meat itself
Certifiably cap, just from the scale of it all. Meat production has a non insignificant amount of environmental impact.
Dairy does too, but meat, you need more animals to kill.
and the former industries drive the latter to some extent
This is exactly backwards
Vegetarianism is neither ideologically or functionally different than any other form of animal commodification.
This is so absurd on its face that I don’t think you’re reasonable enough to bother arguing with, and don’t think anyone reading this will think you are, so I’d just be wasting my time.
Vegetarians aren’t carnists. Being reductionist is an immature thing. We do that for children so they can grasp things before they are ready for the full details.
I’m sorry, what? Do vegetarians not see themselves as having dominion over animals to do with what they please?
Carnism is a concept used in discussions of humanity’s relation to other animals, defined as a prevailing ideology in which people support the use and consumption of animal products
You don’t realize it, but this is actually a non sequitur. You’re right, I am a carnist! I don’t see a moral issue with a human (animal) eating an animal or animal based product. In fact, lots of animals eat animals!
You’re wrong, however, to say that I view animals as products. I do take issue with the industries relating to animal consumption. I take issue with the damage they do to the planet, I take issue with the way they treat the animals, and I take issue with the hygiene and working conditions for those involved. Ideally, I’d live in a world where it was possible to morally eat whatever you fancy. Unfortunately, I live in a world where you have to eat what you can afford.
Of course, as vegetarians are carnists. Two carnists in a relationship is standard.
‘I still think animals are products so don’t mind when others also do’
I swear to god lemmy has the highest ratio of angsty purity testers I’ve ever seen.
I’ve never been any place online where people hate other people that match with them like 99% of the way so god damn much.
It is something to behold as a new user.
it’s common in all leftist spaces.
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I actually think that you thinking this is a problem, is a large part of the problem. People refuse to recognize that other people might just have higher or different standards than them, and think it must be in bad faith. This leads to people who generally agree being fizzled out by all the other people they feel are speaking in bad faith (and there are many that are trying to support non leftist opinions tbf), and leads to leftists ending up being unable to realize that they are allies even if they don’t perfectly align. TBF its kinda hard to see someone shitting on you (as they think you’re a baddie with the fizzled out feather light triggers), but we kinda have to try to figure out how to do that, because otherwise, being a shitty human being is just a winning formula when they have a much easier time forming alliances because they can base their entire identities around hating some people for no good reason.
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Points are meaningless here mate what are you on about. These spaces are one of the few where you don’t need to worry about social points and can speak plainly. Which is why I can tell you that your defence reflex that urges you to attack the messenger instead of thinking about what was said has flipped.
And veggies are worse. Premeditated Carnism. Always butting in with their irrelevant opinions on animal rights.
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Just the ones that jump into threads about vegans and perpetuate their pish.
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But… that isnt what happened here
For real, I think it’s due to the nature of this being an Indi alternative platform. It is filled with extremists and people who get kicked out of other places.
Remember, the first real big explosion in users came from when reddit restricted its API. So, by definition, a bunch of angsty users resistant to change and intolerant of opposing viewpoints.
During that original exodus, people remarked how friendly and tolerant and how people were willing to have constructive debate here. In reality, they were all united under their intolerance and hate for reddit.
Well, I am not fully in agreement there as I myself came here due to those restrictions but that is mostly because I primarily interact with reddit through boost and having it just suddenly get cut off was pretty shity. Not wanting to move platforms doesn’t really come with the same assessment of the person as you are saying. This is on top of API restrictions being something annoying to me as a scientists so I’m happy to not bother much with reddit anymore.
I think the issue is far more related to the other channels which pull in members. Lemmy users are probably more likely to be those who are either hobby enthusists in self hosting, people who are strong pro piracy supporters, people from political extremists groups (in particular leftists groups due to the history of the platform), or those from marginal communities. You also have the big group of people who were barred from other platforms, like the API restriction or the far worse group of people banned from reddit which people will post about proudly regardless of if that ban was reasonable or not.
I like Lemmy a lot, but it’s like any indi space, both filled with great unique things and things that make me want to travel the Australian outback without gas or water.
Reddit should be hated and not tolerated tho??
Thanks for proving my point.
Your point is that people who left a platform because it made decisions they disagreed with don’t like it anymore? Shocking
Reddit is still the best place to go for a lot of niche communities you can’t really find anywhere else. That doesn’t change the fact that it has a lot of issues that stem from both the community culture there and the C-suite execs calling the shots, making it worse at every turn in pursuit of profit.
You’ll find I have similar opinions of most large social media companies. I just don’t talk about them as much because they were never appealing to me in the first place. Reddit had its problems dating wayy back but I enjoyed it for what it offered. You gotta draw the line somewhere, and I drew mine at the API shenanigans
Lemmy picks up the people who refuse to or can no longer use reddit.
I don’t hate anyone I’m just blunt and don’t care about social norms.
Given that we are a social species, that sounds like a terrible way to get literally anything you want accomplished by anyone else.
More than that, it absolutely sounds like you hate people given the vitriol you spat at that person who clearly agrees with you a majority of the way.
You also, even if you don’t care about social norms clearly understand the difference between not, for instance, participating in a silly tradition, and being unnecessarily and unhelpfully rude and aggressive.
The veggie? I view them further away from vegan ideologically than the average person. It’s not an ethical stance it’s an aversion to flesh and/or trying to shift responsibility away from themselves.
And it wasn’t vitriol I just said she views animals as products so no surprise she doesn’t see an issue?
The silly tradition I don’t participate is in speaking to people like they’re too dumb to hear the truth. That’s how I learned.
Believing that animals should have basic rights, at least some degree of sovereignty; and the dignity to not be systematically confined, in constant abuse and outright torture, forcibly bred, exploited and enslaved in every possible way, to have their byproducts extracted to the detriment of their own health, and finally to be slaughtered on a scale that puts every other human atrocity to shame - is not a fucking purity test, it’s a god damn moral baseline.
Except the other person is most of the way with that viewpoint, hence me calling it a purity test.
But they’re really not. The harms and atrocities that come from dairy and eggs are arguably worse than meat itself, and the former industries drive the latter to some extent because it’s not profitable to care for animals for the duration of their natural lifespan.
Vegetarianism is neither ideologically or functionally different than any other form of animal commodification.
Certifiably cap, just from the scale of it all. Meat production has a non insignificant amount of environmental impact.
Dairy does too, but meat, you need more animals to kill.
This is exactly backwards
This is so absurd on its face that I don’t think you’re reasonable enough to bother arguing with, and don’t think anyone reading this will think you are, so I’d just be wasting my time.
Thats bullshit and you know it, go be a pissed off teenager somewhere else.
Bullshit how?
Vegetarians aren’t carnists. Being reductionist is an immature thing. We do that for children so they can grasp things before they are ready for the full details.
I’m sorry, what? Do vegetarians not see themselves as having dominion over animals to do with what they please?
No, they dont. Go learn more about how actual people live in the real world.
Yes they do. Otherwise they’d realise it’s not theirs to take and not partake.
Just because some people dont live according to your definitions doesnt make them wrong, it makes them different. Different doesnt mean good or bad.
No. The definition is clear. I didn’t mention good or bad.
I said vegetarians are carnists and support the dominion over animals. Which they do clearly with their actions.
You don’t realize it, but this is actually a non sequitur. You’re right, I am a carnist! I don’t see a moral issue with a human (animal) eating an animal or animal based product. In fact, lots of animals eat animals!
You’re wrong, however, to say that I view animals as products. I do take issue with the industries relating to animal consumption. I take issue with the damage they do to the planet, I take issue with the way they treat the animals, and I take issue with the hygiene and working conditions for those involved. Ideally, I’d live in a world where it was possible to morally eat whatever you fancy. Unfortunately, I live in a world where you have to eat what you can afford.
No you were right in the first paragraph. I was right, it wasn’t a non sequitur.
Dairy cows and hens are still destined for the meat grinder, regardless of the vegetarian’s choices.
So you’re absolutely right. Sad to see the downvotes
May the downvoters be reborn as dairy cows.