I have been on reddit for just about 12 years now. Something I’ve noticed over time is just how hateful the place has become. A complete outrage machine. Every single sub became filled with it. I’ve filtered so many subreddits over the last few years, it’s insane. I don’t know enough about this place to be sure, but I do hope it doesn’t become the same type of echo chamber of anger.

  • c0c0c0@lemmy.worldEnglish
    143·
    1 year ago

    So, are you saying that “reaching across the aisle” and hearing alternative views are bad things? I get avoiding hate speech and excessive negativity but is think a happy medium would be more healthy.

    • nergal@lemmy.worldEnglish
      16·
      1 year ago

      I think that hearing alternative views isn’t necessarily a bad thing, but humoring insane takes is. I feel like there’s a difference.

    • BarackObama@lemmy.worldEnglish
      133·
      1 year ago

      They’re definitely not saying that “hearing alternative views” is a bad thing. But here is a great comment I saw on Beehaw that identifies the practical flaws in this line of thinking, as it relates to online discourse:

      The problem with these discussions is that we seldomly use common definitions, which creates more heat than light. There was a strain of late 20th Century American conservatism that was rooted in fiscal restraint, loosely regulated free markets, and a privileged place for the nuclear family, civic duty, and the church as the glue holding (small) communities together. I’d vehemently disagree with most of these as policy anchors, but none of them are beyond civil discussion per se.

      But here’s the problem: this late 20th-Century old school conservative thinking has been thoroughly hollowed out and co-opted to the point it is now completely meaningless. (The last administration was neither fiscally restrained, family oriented, nor in any way tied to any recognizable New Testament ‘love thy neighbor’ teaching. Yet, modern ‘conservatives’ can’t get enough).

      Into these conceptual containers has been smuggled a toxic strain of (white) (Christian) (popular) nationalism … some may use the ‘F’ word … that is fundamentally anti-democratic, anti-science, intolerant, and is now emerging as violent - not just to vulnerable groups, which is a show stopper in itself - but to the whole damn country and democratic process. You don’t debate people like that. You crush them at the ballot box (or at Gettysburg or the beaches of Normandy if it comes to it).

      So (pardon the TED talk), I think if someone wants to show up and debate whether we should be running budget deficits in excess of 3% of GDP, or whether we are regulating nuclear power too tightly, or whether industry X should be privatized/nationalized, they are probably good (at least by me - I can’t speak for others). But there is an understandable level of suspicion around the whole ‘conservative’ discourse, and if someone tries to smuggle ethno-nationalism, economic Darwinism, or bigotry toward vulnerable groups into the discussion under the guise of ‘traditional family values’ and ‘fiscal restraint’ … they are going to have a tough time.

      https://beehaw.org/comment/545645

        • BuckFigotstheThird@lemmy.worldEnglish
          72·
          1 year ago

          This person is spreading misinformation, anti-trans propaganda, and using false equivalences, all of which have been established and disseminated by known hate groups.

          • wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
            44·
            1 year ago

            But was he being hateful for simply saying them? He wasn’t calling anyone hateful things, calling for anything to be banned, calling for anyone to have rights taken away. He was making meta-commentary on how discussion of this stuff or anything adjacent to it is forbidden and tend to get conversation just completely shut down.

            Like this shit is some sort of high grade SCP style cognito-hazard.

            I can’t see how anyone can expect to make inroads against these beliefs if they aren’t willing to engage with the people who hold them as if they’re a reasonable person with some bad takes (until they prove themselves otherwise). I think most people have just given up and just lump people who say shit like this in with the legitimately hateful, earned or not.

            I get that most of us don’t have the energy for trying to talk people out of harmful beliefs and it’s easier to just cut things off at the pass to be safe, but I fear the proliferation of this sort of action is eliminating opportunities to bridge these idealogical gaps.

            Surely you don’t slash the tires of every car you see with some dumbass Trump bumper sticker right? Run every NRA bumper sticker off the road? You ignore it, at most you glare and get on with your life. Maybe you make a mental note of who has those stickers to avoid them.

            I fully respect the admins/mods rights to say “we aren’t having this discussion here”, your rights to speak against that sort of post and block it, etc. No one should have to interact with shit they don’t want to, or give platform to shit they don’t want to.

            I just get so tired of this argument that if you say shit that bad people have said then you’re a bad person, instead of maybe just someone otherwise reasonable with some shit beliefs (until proven otherwise).

            If that’s a wrong take, some sort of “hateful person in the closet” statement, then do what you need I guess. I’m just tired man.

            • Black AOC@lemmygrad.mlEnglish
              3·
              1 year ago

              I think most people have just given up and just lump people who say shit like this in with the legitimately hateful, earned or not.

              You’re absolutely correct. From where I sit, I wasn’t put on this earth to educate settlers and those who sound like them who should know better by now with the entirety of the Library of Alexandria at their fingertips. There’s other people with less skin in the game than me who can stick their necks out and catch those rounds when they come. I’ve seen no definitive proof that ‘the other side of the aisle’ even sees me and mine as human, across about a hundred sixty years; so why take that chance anymore in a climate that slides closer and closer to civil war?

            • ZenGrammy@lemmy.worldEnglish
              2·
              1 year ago

              I agree with you and I feel like I should have taken the time to discuss the post before I removed it. Misinformation is against the sitewide rules so I jumped on it, but you’re right. It was a lost opportunity to educate someone.