What you guys aren’t understanding in this frictionless hypothetical sphere of argument is that a single Nazi, by itself, is not a threat. The problem comes when this Nazi connects with other Nazis. If Nazis can’t publicly be Nazis then finding the other ones to gang up with becomes a lot harder.
What you seem to keep overlooking is that It’s considerably easier for white supremacists to, again, use mutually understood dog whistles to identify one another and recruit others, than the alternative and what they want because they don’t think it through: to say, their fucked up shit in it’s entirety so there’s no room to deny or wriggle out of it WITH PUBLIC SCRUTINY and social consequences.
Instead, they say “the south will rise again/the civil war was about state’s rights!” which = “Black people should still be slaves!” when decoded. And they’re allowed to say that all day with no social consequences, to have kids and infect them with their bile and tactics for discreetly propagating it further.
Tldr: instead of shouting down Nazis, calmly record their unrestrained discourse, let them go home feeling good, then use those recordings to tangibly destroy any social standing they may have, as was done in Charlottesville. Tell the businesses that work with their employer that they’re doing business with Nazi enablers until that person is terminated, as just one example.
Shouting them down in the square doesn’t make them rethink spreading their venom, only their tactics. Hitting them in their lives with tangible consequences might get them to shut up wholesale.
The nature of a dog whistle is that it’s supposed to be subtle enough to escape public scrutiny. If you’re not already “in the know” about it it flies right over your head. They are only useful for identifying people who are already bought in. For bringing new people in, for growing the movement, you need to be visible to the uninitiated. You’re not getting new recruits with dog whistles unless the dog whistles are so well known that they aren’t dog whistles anymore and just whistles.
The problem with that is that over a hundred million people have always been racist wannabe slavemongers in this country since before it even started so there will always be large numbers of people who get it.
Lincoln and the Repubs failed us when they didn’t fully push for de-bigoting the bigots during Reconstruction. Instead they were allowed to be racists because Lincoln’s camp was too afraid to challenge their racist ideas because they were so popular, and now we suffer.
What really needs to happen to prevent genocide is that the country needs to be split according to ideology and either strict borders enforced or great distance put between them to prevent the peoples of each from engaging in warfare with each other.
They can start with “people from the inner cities are soooo lazy, aren’t they MARK?”
Dogwhistles can unfortunately also plant seeds and apply the perception of peer pressure. Most Americans don’t spend time thinking about race relations and are pretty suggestible. You work in a southern factory for years and have a half a dozen coworkers blame the urban every time they stub their toes, and some might start adopting that point of view at work as the path of least resistance because, again, most Americans don’t think about the higher stakes or consider the antisocial consequences of their biases. “Hank, Cletus, and Jimmy-Joe-Bob-Steve sure do hate urban people, and those guys are my friends, so I guess urban people must be bad…”
With our k-12 systems sitting mostly in utter ruin to cut billionaire taxes for the last half century, you really can’t expect the median American to have reasonable or even minimal critical thinking skills in a vacuum, much less in the face of targeted social pressures.
If you have such a low opinion of the public’s critical thinking ability I think you’d rather have those Nazis forced into subterfuge. The need for secrecy necessarily limits the amount of people that are exposed to it. The added complexity and stress of working subtly would tax their poorly educated minds and make them less effective.
Ultimately if it wasn’t such an effective strategy they wouldnt be crying about how they get deplatformed and silenced all the damn time. If you think their opinion is so valuable, listen to what they’re telling you.
I don’t think they’re opinion is valuable for the information it disseminates, only for the source it identifies. That has value, because then if that Nazi has anything to lose, that opinion can be used to unravel that source’s life, aka a consequence beyond “hey…shut up.”
Yeah dude, the consequences only come if society actively shuns them for publicly saying Nazi shit. That’s the whole point! You can’t get someone fired for heiling hitler if people don’t think that’s something that should be punished!
No, you want to actively stop them before they’ve given their complete speech with every gruesome atrocity.
I want that shit on camera. Please, keep talking, do go on, and please belabor specifics and ultimate goals of your hate.
Difference. The more they say, the less they can bullshit out of it. You didn’t recite the first chapter of Mein Kampf from memory because you were having a bad day.
What difference? Is laying out a complete plan for rendering the Jews into ash going to make their public shaming more effective somehow? Are they gonna get extra fired, double canceled?
What you guys aren’t understanding in this frictionless hypothetical sphere of argument is that a single Nazi, by itself, is not a threat. The problem comes when this Nazi connects with other Nazis. If Nazis can’t publicly be Nazis then finding the other ones to gang up with becomes a lot harder.
What you seem to keep overlooking is that It’s considerably easier for white supremacists to, again, use mutually understood dog whistles to identify one another and recruit others, than the alternative and what they want because they don’t think it through: to say, their fucked up shit in it’s entirety so there’s no room to deny or wriggle out of it WITH PUBLIC SCRUTINY and social consequences.
Instead, they say “the south will rise again/the civil war was about state’s rights!” which = “Black people should still be slaves!” when decoded. And they’re allowed to say that all day with no social consequences, to have kids and infect them with their bile and tactics for discreetly propagating it further.
Tldr: instead of shouting down Nazis, calmly record their unrestrained discourse, let them go home feeling good, then use those recordings to tangibly destroy any social standing they may have, as was done in Charlottesville. Tell the businesses that work with their employer that they’re doing business with Nazi enablers until that person is terminated, as just one example.
Shouting them down in the square doesn’t make them rethink spreading their venom, only their tactics. Hitting them in their lives with tangible consequences might get them to shut up wholesale.
The nature of a dog whistle is that it’s supposed to be subtle enough to escape public scrutiny. If you’re not already “in the know” about it it flies right over your head. They are only useful for identifying people who are already bought in. For bringing new people in, for growing the movement, you need to be visible to the uninitiated. You’re not getting new recruits with dog whistles unless the dog whistles are so well known that they aren’t dog whistles anymore and just whistles.
The problem with that is that over a hundred million people have always been racist wannabe slavemongers in this country since before it even started so there will always be large numbers of people who get it.
Lincoln and the Repubs failed us when they didn’t fully push for de-bigoting the bigots during Reconstruction. Instead they were allowed to be racists because Lincoln’s camp was too afraid to challenge their racist ideas because they were so popular, and now we suffer.
What really needs to happen to prevent genocide is that the country needs to be split according to ideology and either strict borders enforced or great distance put between them to prevent the peoples of each from engaging in warfare with each other.
They can start with “people from the inner cities are soooo lazy, aren’t they MARK?”
Dogwhistles can unfortunately also plant seeds and apply the perception of peer pressure. Most Americans don’t spend time thinking about race relations and are pretty suggestible. You work in a southern factory for years and have a half a dozen coworkers blame the urban every time they stub their toes, and some might start adopting that point of view at work as the path of least resistance because, again, most Americans don’t think about the higher stakes or consider the antisocial consequences of their biases. “Hank, Cletus, and Jimmy-Joe-Bob-Steve sure do hate urban people, and those guys are my friends, so I guess urban people must be bad…”
With our k-12 systems sitting mostly in utter ruin to cut billionaire taxes for the last half century, you really can’t expect the median American to have reasonable or even minimal critical thinking skills in a vacuum, much less in the face of targeted social pressures.
If you have such a low opinion of the public’s critical thinking ability I think you’d rather have those Nazis forced into subterfuge. The need for secrecy necessarily limits the amount of people that are exposed to it. The added complexity and stress of working subtly would tax their poorly educated minds and make them less effective.
Ultimately if it wasn’t such an effective strategy they wouldnt be crying about how they get deplatformed and silenced all the damn time. If you think their opinion is so valuable, listen to what they’re telling you.
I don’t think they’re opinion is valuable for the information it disseminates, only for the source it identifies. That has value, because then if that Nazi has anything to lose, that opinion can be used to unravel that source’s life, aka a consequence beyond “hey…shut up.”
Yeah dude, the consequences only come if society actively shuns them for publicly saying Nazi shit. That’s the whole point! You can’t get someone fired for heiling hitler if people don’t think that’s something that should be punished!
No, you want to actively stop them before they’ve given their complete speech with every gruesome atrocity.
I want that shit on camera. Please, keep talking, do go on, and please belabor specifics and ultimate goals of your hate.
Difference. The more they say, the less they can bullshit out of it. You didn’t recite the first chapter of Mein Kampf from memory because you were having a bad day.
What difference? Is laying out a complete plan for rendering the Jews into ash going to make their public shaming more effective somehow? Are they gonna get extra fired, double canceled?