Seed oil risks and strict carnivore diets.
Veganism is unhealthy
Are you saying this is the myth or the truth?
That skimmed milk is healthier that full fat
There are reliable nonsurgical ways to lose weight long term.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23859104/ just the abstract, but basically most people can’t sustain a 5 % loss over 3 years with most regaining the weight and some adding additional weight.
Even the studies that claim long term success have to use shorter time-frames:
https://ajcn.nutrition.org/article/S0002-9165(23)29536-2/fulltext
The above one defines successful long term weight loss as 10% reduction after one year with about a 20% success rate. To put this in perspective, a 300 pound person in a weight loss success if they get to 270 and stay there for a year.
To maintain their weight loss, members report engaging in high levels of physical activity (≈1 h/d), eating a low-calorie, low-fat diet, eating breakfast regularly, self-monitoring weight, and maintaining a consistent eating pattern across weekdays and weekends.
An hour of physical activity every single day on a reduced calorie diet sounds miserable. That’s your life, it revolves around finding time to both do an hour of serious exercise and planning what you eat.
Only replies with citations from reputable journals will be taken seriously. The plural of anecdote is not data.
https://hackertalks.com/post/7487475
Here is a 5 year study showing people doing keto keep the weight off.
Thank you for sharing
Thank you so much for the link! Those are amazing results for diabetics in terms of most cardiovascular health markers. I’m going to address the weight loss part of it and why I don’t consider it an example of successful weight loss.
Full text of the study linked in the article at https://www.diabetesresearchclinicalpractice.com/article/S0168-8227(24)00808-8/fulltext
First up: all participants had type 2 diabetes. I’m going to brush that away because my main point is even if this holds for the general population, it’s not a method that works for a majority of people even in the study for 10% loss and 10% isn’t that much over 5 years.
Among five-year completers, 61.3 % and 39.5 % of the participants sustained 5 % and 10 % weight loss.
The original study started with 262 participants, all of whom that type 2 diabetes. This was down to 122 at the end of the five years. Drop outs in studies are normal, and having done keto myself, it’s really hard. Let’s ignore the drop outs since we don’t have data on if they stopped doing keto or just stopped being in the study. Just wanted to mention that we’re down by half already.
Of the remaining participants, at the end of 5 years of keto, only ~40% lost and kept off 10% of their body weight. They used a baseline of 128.7kg (~280 lbs). Using that as a starting point for this example, the best case scenario for weight loss is 116kg (256 lbs) if you’re in the lucky~40% of people that can stick to the diet for 5 years and are in the group it works for. Even if you’re 7 feet tall, 116kg is still considered overweight. You’ve maybe changed your BMI category (BMI sucks btw). You are still fat.
I wouldn’t consider having less than a coin toss’s chance at 10% loss after 5 years a method that consistently turns fat people into not fat people.
(Note I’m not trying to move the goalposts here and quibble about what percentage is significant, etc., it’s just nowhere close to bariatric surgery.
In comparing the body weight of the 64 followed patients 5 years after surgery and before surgery, 62 patients (93.9%) experienced weight loss (31.50 (20.00–44.25) kg)
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7761683/
That’s closer to 25% loss, most of which happens in the first 6 months. That’s more than double the percentage loss of keto and more than doubles the success rate of the greatest loss category.)
Thank you for actually reading the paper, it’s gratifying to be able to discuss it in detail.
Surgery is a option, I just wanted to give you a example of 5 years of consistent weight loss that didn’t involve surgery.
As far as the diabetic group in the study went, I think the goal of people in the study was just controlling diabetes, any weight loss would be a side benefit rather then the primary goal.
I’m firmly in the camp that people should not try to lose weight as the goal, getting healthy is the goal - Fixing a poor diet is necessary even with surgery, so why not try fixing the diet first?
I note in the above surgery paper, the hypertensive cases went from 29 -> 23… That tells me even if these people are less obese, they are still metabolically unhealthy and still should improve their diet.
Bariatric surgery comes with a ton of problems as well including the possibility of malnutrition. Definitely not something to take lightly nor am I championing it.
Health is definitely a better goal than weight. Smokers are typically lower weight than non smokers, but I wouldn’t recommend that, either. Decoupling health from weight is a challenge when it comes to healthcare (in terms of doctors and insurance).
Again, thanks for the interesting article; I had previously heard about the negative cardiovascular effects of keto, but it might be time to update some of those conceptions.
Happy to talk about keto to any degree you like: If you remember the issues you heard I can point you at the current literature for the concern.
LDL is the one interesting metric on low carb that might be the issue your remembering, for overweight people it goes down, but for lean people some of them fall into the LMHR (lean mass hyper responder) type and their LDL goes 3-4x above the current guidelines. The current literature heavily indicates that LDL is not a concern by itself, only damaged (oxidized and glycated) LDL is a indicator of a problem. for the LMHR group their elevated LDL is the type-A totally healthy LDL.
You might want to reword your first sentence because it makes it sound like it’s a health myth that it’s possible to lose weight without surgery.
Nope, you read that correctly. There is no current proven nonsurgical method for people to lose and keep off significant weight long term. The meta study I linked had to minimize the amount lost and the timespan to get positive results. Citations to the contrary are welcome. Anything aside from citations is not.
Bonus article: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10541056/
From the abstract:
Over the past three decades, researchers have found that biopsychosocial factors determine weight gain much more than personal choices and responsibility.
Anything aside from citations is not.
You’re on a community for discussion–not a scientific community. And you come across as very arrogant and rude, so I’m not interested in engaging further with you regardless of the community or content.
Seems like they are just convinced in their ways. Well, that’s life
A question about myths that’s just people reciting myths without backing them up is a recipe for lots of BS. Saying science has no place in dispelling myths seems like a weird take, but if it is, I’m glad you don’t want to engage. Bye!
It’s about making healthy lifestyle decisions that fit into your day-to-day schedule. I get an hour of exercise a day just by riding my bike to work, and the reason I’m able to do that is my main criteria for buying a house was living in a walkable neighborhood and being able to ride my bike to work.
Not having time to exercise is a symptom of not living in a walkable neighborhood.
It might be difficult to find a study about that. Hopefully someone can provide one.
(I am personally convinced it’s true, but indeed anecdotal evidence is no proof)
Also, it’s not about healthy lifestyle decisions: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10541056/
From the abstract:
Over the past three decades, researchers have found that biopsychosocial factors determine weight gain much more than personal choices and responsibility.
This does not contain a citation. It does contain a solution that doesn’t work for the majority of people. Please try again.
Thank you for the links
“fatty foods make you fat”
I don’t think that’s the myth, though. I don’t hear people saying that fatty food makes you fat. I do hear “eat less fat.” A high-fat diet is bad for you. Eat too much and it will make you fat among other things but you can say that about anything you over-eat.
The myth is “low-fat food is automatically healthy.”
Most people probably don’t need to worry about fat if they just eat a reasonably healthy diet.
It’s a cognitive problem.
Good science says: “high-fat diets are associated with these poor health outcomes.”
People hear: “fat bad! Give us all the fat-free food!”
Good science says: “no, we need fat just not too much and some kinds are better than others.”
People hear: “nothing wrong with fat! ‘Fat bad’ was bullshit! Eat all the fat!”
That salt causes high blood pressure. Like I understand there was a theory about how it could lead to high blood pressure, but empirical evidence shows that modern salt consumption is not the reason for high blood pressure
You are correct: https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/salt-guide
It is linked to high blood pressure and people with high blood pressure should limit sodium intake. There’s genetic variation in how sensitive people are to sodium levels but excess sodium will make high blood pressure worse.
The cause of high blood pressure is more likely to be overall diet and lack of exercise with a bit of genetics sprinkled on top. But excess sodium intake will make it worse.
It’s a myth that “sodium doesn’t affect blood pressure.” Even if it’s not the cause it can make it worse.
It’s linked to high blood pressure for some people based on genetics. Having high blood pressure doesn’t automatically mean that sodium is going to make it worse for you.
Citation?
https://www.health.harvard.edu/heart-health/dietary-salt-and-blood-pressure-a-complex-connection
Plenty more out there with a search.
Thanks. If I do a search, other things like this come up that say increased potassium word be a better countermeasure than reduced sodium https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/HYPERTENSIONAHA.123.20545
Can confirm, multiple family members have to be careful about sodium intake. Took far longer than it should have for the root cause of the blood pressure to be identified (apparently an endocrine issue), and quite a few hospitalizations.
Oh, I just looked at available information. It seems like I was mistaken, ok you are right. Thank you for busting a myth about a myth for me
Mythception!
