• htrayl
    link
    fedilink
    16
    edit-2
    10 months ago

    Meh, this article really only discusses lithium ion and lead acid batteries. It is well known both of these are abysmal for grid storage, and are at best relatively expensive solutions for mobile energy.

    There are already several energy storage solutions that are starting to be installed that aren’t these and that are far more cost effective. Flow batteries are an example. For the same cost as lithium ion we get 3x the energy storage and 3x the lifespan (and are essentially 100% refurbishable) for the same cost. They just come at a price of weight and volume (which isn’t a problem for most grid or residential storage). There are others as well.

    The article does do a good job talking about thermal as a solution, and this is very true. They don’t talk about high temperature thermal energy storage, though that is admittedly more of an industrial use case.

    I will also say thag more solar is also something that is compelling and interesting - meaning we significantly overbuild solar capacity to capture the majority of mismatch of demand vs supply. We often think about trying to build the minimum amount of solar to get to match the output we need, but in the end it is probably cheaper to massively outscale what we build vs what we need.

  • @huginn@feddit.it
    cake
    link
    fedilink
    1410 months ago

    Culturally this is never gonna happen, obviously.

    Especially since it’s not necessary.

    Energy storage tech is only barely in its infancy since fossil fuel corps have stood on its neck for so long.

    It’s a really weird take to insist that batteries can’t work when we’ve barely even tried. It’s like the 2 year old saying it’s impossible because he’s been trying to stick the star through the circle hole, and that we should just be happy with stars not being in the box.

    Ecologically damaging like lithium is still a case of star in circle hole: we’re only just scratching the surface of grid scale energy storage.

    • CounselingTechie
      link
      fedilink
      410 months ago

      I feel that you have put it best. We are still developing our technology with energy storage. The current technology is not ideal, but as we develop the need we may find ourselves likewise developing energy storage that is more efficient.

    • Uranium3006
      link
      fedilink
      210 months ago

      I want to see more stuff like grid scale flywheel energy storage. Dead simple tech and if it can live power by even 6 hourait’s immediately useful, 24 and that’s 90% of that you need

      • @keepthepace@slrpnk.net
        link
        fedilink
        410 months ago

        Many battery tech are dead simple. It is a rolled layer of specific materials at precise thickness but really not rocket science, especially when you are not concerned about per kg efficiency. Flywheels are much more complicated, requiring well maintained mechanics, a motor and a dynamo.

      • @schroedingershat@lemmy.world
        cake
        link
        fedilink
        1
        edit-2
        10 months ago

        It takes a 260kg flywheel with all its mass at the edge spinning at mach 0.5 to store 1kWh.

        If you want simple supply chains, build a carnot battery. It’ll be half as efficient, but far more compact (if graphite is the storage, more compact than LFP) and long lasting.

        If you want a simple machine, buy a battery. The only hard part is high purity.

      • @huginn@feddit.it
        cake
        link
        fedilink
        110 months ago

        Afaik flywheels are good for smoothing out fluctuations and peaking but not for real storage.

        Flow batteries and pumped hydro seem like the solution for durable storage.

    • @greengnu@slrpnk.net
      link
      fedilink
      English
      210 months ago

      Tragically, you might be right about reduction in consumption being a cultural non-starter.

      As it would make many things much easier but as you pointed out, advances in battery technology can fill some of that gap.

  • @ansiz@lemmy.world
    cake
    link
    fedilink
    English
    510 months ago

    At least in the USA the bigger challenge seem to be the energy company’s really fighting back against residential solar. California is facing some serious changes, I don’t think net metering is even an option in just municipal areas even more. I’ve heard around San Francisco they are going to start hitting folks with big grid connection fees every month.

    In my area of North Carolina it’s the same thing, with the power company doing everything it can to make switching to solar less and less worth it. Just the cost of the panels are enough to do that for most people!

    • @schroedingershat@lemmy.world
      cake
      link
      fedilink
      210 months ago

      Net meeting is a gift to the upper middle class and wealthy to stop them nimbying and to develop the industry. If they are complaining about not getting it on new installs, it worked.

      What is needed is to stop forcing them to pay $3 to the utility and a salesman for every $0.8 the actual product costs. End any fee for approval, make the sale, install and resale prices publicly available, and the utility has to pay full retail price for any energy that could have been produced by an installed system awaiting approval.

    • CounselingTechie
      link
      fedilink
      110 months ago

      Where I am in Colorado the struggle here is that the local city government has many regulations on what is allowed per their municipal codes to prevent solar panels from being developed in the town. If you live out of town it is good, but living in town there are enough codes that prevent the panels from being built or installed.