There recently was a discussion on lemmy where several US citizens (one of them allegedly an engineer…) tried to explain to me that metric might be „more precise“ (? 😂) but the imperial system more practical, because „everybody knows what a foot is“. When I asked them to add feet to miles I got shouted at (in CAPS) that noone (ever) does that. 🤷♀️
I’ll tell you, most of us in the states would love a total switch to metric. We use it where is matters most, but we also have an aging population raised on lead has fumes that think anything they don’t know is “communism” or “wholeness” or whatever else the propaganda right spews. Those are the assholes that pretty much stop progress on anything.
I’m big into 3D printing, actually got into the same argument with another 3D printing guy…. And I’m like, literally EVERYTHING we do is in metric. The whole damn hobby is metric.
You mean the „engineer“? Well, what can I say, he was insisting his professor at uni taught him „a true engineer can work with every system“.
I mean yes, but the difference is one engineer is just happily pushing around decimals, the other one goes pale when you ask what 1/5th of a gallon in cubic inches is…
Hehe, yea, I was poking fun at the “engineer”. There was a congressman a while ago that got caught posting right wing stuff on twitter from an alt account “as a black man” (dude was white of course”
Sometimes I like to think about the logistical challenges with a switch to metric. The one that always gives me pause is highway signs. Thinking about the monumental task of replacing every speed sign, distance sign, and mile marker across the country in any timely period makes my head hurt.
It could certainly be done, and is probably easier than I think with all the state DoTs working independently on it especially over time. We have a lot of road with a lot of signs.
I honestly hate that argument. “it would cost so much to change all those signs” is just negative talk for “it would employee a shit ton of people, create a lot of jobs, and be a major infrastructure project that could help our economy.”.
Honestly, the economic benefit of major infrastructure works is rarely talked about as much as it should be. Mainly, I think, because the people it benefits are the ones actually doing the work. And that’s scary to a certain segment of society that would like very much that not to be the case.
I don’t think it’s a valid argument against metric, just a thought experiment to consider about the time needed to implement. Converting would be a slow process, but I agree it could be an economic boost as swapping things is a largely a manual process
Meant to mention in my first comment, I haven’t met many other people who like to randomly imagine the ways major structural changes would take place. Lol.
I like to pick a huge project. Like, say, single payer healthcare, or the nationalization of an industry, and then imagine the individual steps that would need to be taken to get there. Doesn’t necessarily have to be a project I’d support, I just have fun imagining the ways it would need to happen.
I think the bigger one is the construction industry.
2"x4" studs. 4’x8’ plywood. 16" O.C.
Changing to 44x95, 1219x2438, 406 O.C doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. We could switch over to the metric equivalents (like 1250x1250 or 600 O.C.), but that would mean switching out machinery and would break a lot of standards.
You do realize that the US tried to switch to metric for 6 months in the 70s and it was a giant failure so we switched back, yes? Do you think 2023 America is smarter than 1970s America lol?
Edit: not sure why downvotes. I am in favor of switching US to metric. But historically it didn’t work.
You do realize asshole Republicans reverted before it could be more than implemented on a couple of highways
“Metric supporters argued the road signs were a crucial step in helping Americans get over any psychological blocks to switching measurement systems. But Republican Charles Grassley, then a congressman and now a senator from Iowa, killed proposed federal regulations that would have forced states to put up signs in kilometers.”
They literally locked putting up signs in both metric an Imperial
Also… remember my comment about old fucks raised on gas lead fumes…. Yea, the 70s……
Given that the 70’s was 50 years ago, most people don’t know the details of what happened. Other than a metric conversion was attempted.
It’s both surprising and not that it was killed by republicans. And given the current nationalist furor in the party, it doesn’t have a snow ball’s chance in hell of happening in the next decade. If it was proposed, again.
I mean, I’d be very worried if 2023 wasn’t smarter than 1970 no matter the location. Between the lead poisoning and the advancements in knowledge and education methods…
I say that Metric is like color vision. You can see things in whole new and easier ways. People in USC can’t understand what others see and insist things are just fine the way they are. Thus the “no one ever does that”, “why would you need to know that”, “who cares”, etc.
I saw that too, and many of them claimed they learn both Metric and Imperial British systems and convert between them all the time. So this stood out now:
For the most part, we generally only use pounds, feet, miles. Everything else is a mystery. Even ounces, cups and gallons are some fucking magical mystery. Just follow the recipe.
I mean, it’s true. Ask an American to visualize an ounce of anything other than drugs, and they probably won’t be able to. Ask how many ounces in a gallon, and they’ll Google it. Even cups aren’t well understood. We can eyeball a mile on the interstate, or tell you how tall someone is, or lift a box and guess it’s weight to within 5 pounds. But honestly, that’s about it. We just aren’t really taught to visualize our weights and measures, it’s why newscasters keep saying shit like “8 Olympic swimming pools!” Or “the size of three football fields” because we just don’t have a coherent system ingrained in us. That’s also, I think, why we’re so against metrification. Because weights and measures feel hard, because we’re basically only semi-literate in our own mother tongue, so a “foreign language” feels like it’d be this huge undertaking.
We just aren’t really taught to visualize our weights and measures, it’s why newscasters keep saying shit like “8 Olympic swimming pools!” Or “the size of three football fields”
This really isn’t an American thing - it’s just human, we can’t really visualize dimensions accurately unless we have a good reference. Some may measure the Olympic swimming pool in feet others in meters, but the effect is the same.
Really? … Am I super weird then? Because I can visualize volume and distance really well. I just assumed that was being, like, literate in both systems of measure.
It’s called an example. Want another one? How many laps do you need to run on a 400 m track to run a 10k? How many people can you serve with your 2.5 kg steak if everybody needs to get a 250 g steak? Need more?
Heres the thing, your examples suck because there are no good examples. Almost no one needs to make conversions in their daily lives and those that do have charts and calculators.
As an American, I understand that metric is better for a lot of things. It also would cost a metric fuck ton (ha!) of money to switch over, and it just really isn’t a priority when things work just fine for us here. It’s not like we are constantly running into problems that would be easier to solve by using metric, and the people in the few professions that do run into those problems frequently just use metric.
The original idea behind imperial units is actually quite nice. They used 12 inches in a foot because you could divide it in so many ways without using decimals. You can take 1/2 of it, 1/3, 1/4, and 1/6 without ever needing decimals. It’s great for mental math with small numbers. That obviously is no longer the most important thing anymore, as we all have calculators with us at all times, and we deal with much bigger numbers on average than they used 200 years ago.
We all still use 360° in a circle for this exact reason. It can be divided up in 22 different ways (excluding 1 and 360 as factors).
The original idea behind imperial units is actually quite nice. They used 12 inches in a foot because you could divide it in so many ways without using decimals. You can take 1/2 of it, 1/3, 1/4, and 1/6 without ever needing decimals.
You can measure 1/2, 1/3, or 1/4 of a meter, why wouldn’t you? Also, seriously, those common fractions aren’t that hard in decimal. Everybody knows that 125 g is 1/8 kg.
That’s not the issue. The issue is that it’s not consistent between imperial units, you have a zoo of different subdivisions between units. You have 12 inches in a foot, three foot in a yard etc pp.
The issue is it gets really unwieldy in multiplication, 1 cubic ft is how many cubic inches… 1728, how convenient.
Tell me how much is 1/6 cubic ft in inches? How many cups are that? There goes your mental math.
(It is also a common misconception that imperial is „duodecimal“. It’s not. It’s counting to 12 in decimal. If you had a proper duodecimal system, „12“ * „12“ would make 100 not 144.)
We all still use 360° in a circle
And you also say 180°, 45°, 720°. Not 1/2, 1/8, 2.
If you go down this rabbit hole, you will eventually realize that it is our base 10 number system that is weak in terms of divisibility. If we counted in base 12, the metric system would follow suit and you’d have your convenient fractions.
In my “perfect world” musings, however, I jump back and forth between base 12 and some power of 2 base. The latter would not be very naturally divisible but would make basic arithmetic much easier. There is a reason computers prefer binary.
The other point I’d like to raise is that even in the imperial system, you are not spared having to deal with awkward fractions, as you will realize when you walk into a hardware store looking for that 5/64" screw. Apparently, fractions are not a deal breaker in this case, so perhaps we should refer to a third of a metre as simply that: 1/3m?
There recently was a discussion on lemmy where several US citizens (one of them allegedly an engineer…) tried to explain to me that metric might be „more precise“ (? 😂) but the imperial system more practical, because „everybody knows what a foot is“. When I asked them to add feet to miles I got shouted at (in CAPS) that noone (ever) does that. 🤷♀️
Lol, that sounds very much “as a black man”
I’ll tell you, most of us in the states would love a total switch to metric. We use it where is matters most, but we also have an aging population raised on lead has fumes that think anything they don’t know is “communism” or “wholeness” or whatever else the propaganda right spews. Those are the assholes that pretty much stop progress on anything.
I’m big into 3D printing, actually got into the same argument with another 3D printing guy…. And I’m like, literally EVERYTHING we do is in metric. The whole damn hobby is metric.
I hate humanity
You mean the „engineer“? Well, what can I say, he was insisting his professor at uni taught him „a true engineer can work with every system“.
I mean yes, but the difference is one engineer is just happily pushing around decimals, the other one goes pale when you ask what 1/5th of a gallon in cubic inches is…
Hehe, yea, I was poking fun at the “engineer”. There was a congressman a while ago that got caught posting right wing stuff on twitter from an alt account “as a black man” (dude was white of course”
Sometimes I like to think about the logistical challenges with a switch to metric. The one that always gives me pause is highway signs. Thinking about the monumental task of replacing every speed sign, distance sign, and mile marker across the country in any timely period makes my head hurt.
It could certainly be done, and is probably easier than I think with all the state DoTs working independently on it especially over time. We have a lot of road with a lot of signs.
I honestly hate that argument. “it would cost so much to change all those signs” is just negative talk for “it would employee a shit ton of people, create a lot of jobs, and be a major infrastructure project that could help our economy.”. Honestly, the economic benefit of major infrastructure works is rarely talked about as much as it should be. Mainly, I think, because the people it benefits are the ones actually doing the work. And that’s scary to a certain segment of society that would like very much that not to be the case.
I don’t think it’s a valid argument against metric, just a thought experiment to consider about the time needed to implement. Converting would be a slow process, but I agree it could be an economic boost as swapping things is a largely a manual process
Meant to mention in my first comment, I haven’t met many other people who like to randomly imagine the ways major structural changes would take place. Lol.
I like to pick a huge project. Like, say, single payer healthcare, or the nationalization of an industry, and then imagine the individual steps that would need to be taken to get there. Doesn’t necessarily have to be a project I’d support, I just have fun imagining the ways it would need to happen.
I think the bigger one is the construction industry.
2"x4" studs. 4’x8’ plywood. 16" O.C.
Changing to 44x95, 1219x2438, 406 O.C doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. We could switch over to the metric equivalents (like 1250x1250 or 600 O.C.), but that would mean switching out machinery and would break a lot of standards.
You do realize that the US tried to switch to metric for 6 months in the 70s and it was a giant failure so we switched back, yes? Do you think 2023 America is smarter than 1970s America lol?
Edit: not sure why downvotes. I am in favor of switching US to metric. But historically it didn’t work.
You do realize asshole Republicans reverted before it could be more than implemented on a couple of highways
“Metric supporters argued the road signs were a crucial step in helping Americans get over any psychological blocks to switching measurement systems. But Republican Charles Grassley, then a congressman and now a senator from Iowa, killed proposed federal regulations that would have forced states to put up signs in kilometers.”
They literally locked putting up signs in both metric an Imperial
Also… remember my comment about old fucks raised on gas lead fumes…. Yea, the 70s……
Given that the 70’s was 50 years ago, most people don’t know the details of what happened. Other than a metric conversion was attempted.
It’s both surprising and not that it was killed by republicans. And given the current nationalist furor in the party, it doesn’t have a snow ball’s chance in hell of happening in the next decade. If it was proposed, again.
I mean, I’d be very worried if 2023 wasn’t smarter than 1970 no matter the location. Between the lead poisoning and the advancements in knowledge and education methods…
Well not entirely. 2L coke bottles emerged around that time and they’re still around!
I say that Metric is like color vision. You can see things in whole new and easier ways. People in USC can’t understand what others see and insist things are just fine the way they are. Thus the “no one ever does that”, “why would you need to know that”, “who cares”, etc.
I saw that too, and many of them claimed they learn both Metric and Imperial British systems and convert between them all the time. So this stood out now:
I mean, it’s true. Ask an American to visualize an ounce of anything other than drugs, and they probably won’t be able to. Ask how many ounces in a gallon, and they’ll Google it. Even cups aren’t well understood. We can eyeball a mile on the interstate, or tell you how tall someone is, or lift a box and guess it’s weight to within 5 pounds. But honestly, that’s about it. We just aren’t really taught to visualize our weights and measures, it’s why newscasters keep saying shit like “8 Olympic swimming pools!” Or “the size of three football fields” because we just don’t have a coherent system ingrained in us. That’s also, I think, why we’re so against metrification. Because weights and measures feel hard, because we’re basically only semi-literate in our own mother tongue, so a “foreign language” feels like it’d be this huge undertaking.
This really isn’t an American thing - it’s just human, we can’t really visualize dimensions accurately unless we have a good reference. Some may measure the Olympic swimming pool in feet others in meters, but the effect is the same.
Really? … Am I super weird then? Because I can visualize volume and distance really well. I just assumed that was being, like, literate in both systems of measure.
Everyone can visualize volume and distance really well in their own head. Doesn’t mean they’re right. Try it for yourself, maybe you’re gifted?
I mean, if you’re converting feet to miles, you’re doing something weird.
How many 39 ft rails do you need to build a 100 mile railroad?
Why on Earth would I ever do that?
If I was a rail engineer, I would have a chart (or a calculator if its past the year 1980)
Can you divide 1000 by 39 quickly and easily?
It’s called an example. Want another one? How many laps do you need to run on a 400 m track to run a 10k? How many people can you serve with your 2.5 kg steak if everybody needs to get a 250 g steak? Need more?
Heres the thing, your examples suck because there are no good examples. Almost no one needs to make conversions in their daily lives and those that do have charts and calculators.
Life is not a math problem.
As an American, I understand that metric is better for a lot of things. It also would cost a metric fuck ton (ha!) of money to switch over, and it just really isn’t a priority when things work just fine for us here. It’s not like we are constantly running into problems that would be easier to solve by using metric, and the people in the few professions that do run into those problems frequently just use metric.
The original idea behind imperial units is actually quite nice. They used 12 inches in a foot because you could divide it in so many ways without using decimals. You can take 1/2 of it, 1/3, 1/4, and 1/6 without ever needing decimals. It’s great for mental math with small numbers. That obviously is no longer the most important thing anymore, as we all have calculators with us at all times, and we deal with much bigger numbers on average than they used 200 years ago.
We all still use 360° in a circle for this exact reason. It can be divided up in 22 different ways (excluding 1 and 360 as factors).
You can measure 1/2, 1/3, or 1/4 of a meter, why wouldn’t you? Also, seriously, those common fractions aren’t that hard in decimal. Everybody knows that 125 g is 1/8 kg.
That’s not the issue. The issue is that it’s not consistent between imperial units, you have a zoo of different subdivisions between units. You have 12 inches in a foot, three foot in a yard etc pp.
The issue is it gets really unwieldy in multiplication, 1 cubic ft is how many cubic inches… 1728, how convenient.
Tell me how much is 1/6 cubic ft in inches? How many cups are that? There goes your mental math.
(It is also a common misconception that imperial is „duodecimal“. It’s not. It’s counting to 12 in decimal. If you had a proper duodecimal system, „12“ * „12“ would make 100 not 144.)
And you also say 180°, 45°, 720°. Not 1/2, 1/8, 2.
Ok, I have heard this argument before.
If you go down this rabbit hole, you will eventually realize that it is our base 10 number system that is weak in terms of divisibility. If we counted in base 12, the metric system would follow suit and you’d have your convenient fractions.
In my “perfect world” musings, however, I jump back and forth between base 12 and some power of 2 base. The latter would not be very naturally divisible but would make basic arithmetic much easier. There is a reason computers prefer binary.
The other point I’d like to raise is that even in the imperial system, you are not spared having to deal with awkward fractions, as you will realize when you walk into a hardware store looking for that 5/64" screw. Apparently, fractions are not a deal breaker in this case, so perhaps we should refer to a third of a metre as simply that: 1/3m?