Things are not that simple. Not all of Hezbollah are militants, there are many social workers and politicians
Hezbollah organizes an extensive social development program and runs hospitals, news services, educational facilities, and encouragement of Nikah mut‘ah. Some of its established institutions are: Emdad committee for Islamic Charity, Hezbollah Central Press Office, Al Jarha Association, and Jihad Al Binaa Developmental Association. Jihad Al Binna’s Reconstruction Campaign is responsible for numerous economic and infrastructure development projects in Lebanon. Hezbollah has set up a Martyr’s Institute (Al-Shahid Social Association), which guarantees to provide living and education expenses for the families of fighters who die in battle.
Hezbollah holds 14 of the 128 seats in the Parliament of Lebanon and is a member of the Resistance and Development Bloc. According to Daniel L. Byman, it is “the most powerful single political movement in Lebanon.” Hezbollah, along with the Amal Movement, represents most of Lebanese Shi’a.
Haha no. Take some time and read up maybe? All the info is available. Heck, maybe hop on a call and talk to some people in Lebanon? Anything. Just stop repeating nonsense.
But it ISN’T. The US mainstream media constantly lies and the US pushes propaganda all around the world. We’ve been fed disinformation for decades not just since Trump. So I can’t just read up on them without a deep dive in trying to first find neutral sources and read and then evaluate them. If you just read the standard version about them your perception is going to be warped. Like I said, they have bad PR, which really means prevailing propaganda brands them as evil.
I don’t like their religious views either but fundamentally they are guys in a militia fighting against foreign invaders and threats to their country.
You’re asking why the US formed an ally 75 years ago with the only stable democracy in the middle east and has a continued interest in maintaining stability in the region?
Of course not, you can only operate in sound bytes, buzzwords and catchphrases.
Mind telling me how Israel is a table democracy? Or how they create stability? Maybe you can tell me why the middle east is a destabilized region to begin with?
I do mind telling you because I know I won’t get an informed discussion out of this thread. You want to talk ME politics? Start a new thread with specifics and let’s go over it. I’m not expending energy replying to buzz phrases with detailed responses. I’ve played this game and it sucks spending time and energy discussing something only to get back.
“lmao. Genocide Joe amirite?”
People use lazy catchphrases to describe me politics: I respond with more lazy catchphrases.
Mind telling me how Israel is a table democracy? Or how they create stability? Maybe you can tell me why the middle east is a destabilized region to begin with?
You’re asking a rhetorical question in the hopes of getting a gotcha. Because, again, all you guys do is swim in catchphrases and vibes. Your primary goal here is not to deepen any kind of understanding. If you did, you would be a lot more honest in your questions. You’d open up with a clear argument, based on specifics, with dates, people, events etc.
No one is obligated to give you an essay on the last 75 years of ME geopolitics if all you do is start is with catchphrases and gotchas.
You want a nuanced discussion that delves into the specifics of the geopolitics of the region? Start a thread that’s not just diluted meaningless sentences, such as this nugget:
Why should the US president be in regular contact with the perpetrator of an ongoing genocide?
It’s hopeless, because you guys will bounce back and forth between one catchphrase or buzz sentence without opening a book, or a wikipedia page, or an article, or anything. And you want us to come here and write essays to explain or refute these meaningless sentiments. It’s all vibes. You start threads with vibes, you get vibes.
“only stable democracy” haha that old chestnut, you are deluded if you are ignoring the number of actual democracies in the ME that USA has helped topple or marginalised.
If someone starts a conversation in buzzwords and catchphrases I will respond in kind. You don’t like it? Feel free to start another thread that doesn’t use catchphrase as the foundation and starting point for a conversation on me politics.
You guys want to have your cake and eat it. Pick one. Have a nuanced discussion about me politics or throw memes around. Don’t shit yourself because you don’t like what you see in the mirror.
Whilst the first part of your point is correct IMHO, for the rest Israel has been the very opposite of a force for stability in the region and the non-conditionality of the US’ help has emboldened successive Israeli governments to behave worse and worse thus making the region less stable (one of their main concerns seems to be to stop nations around them from having stable democratic governments) rather than more.
I would say that ACAB and a bunch of very rich Americans with Fascist tendencies who happen to be Jewish and love the ethno-Fascism which is Zionism having bought American Politics (basically doing what Russia wanted to do and, unlike Russia, actually succeeding) is a far better explanation for continued American support of Israel, a theory that much better explains the unconditionality of the American support for Israel than the idea that it’s because of wanting stability in the Middle East.
Absolutelly, American support makes geostrategical sense up to a point. It’s just that we’re well beyond that point and the American support in its current form (weapon shipments, blocking UN resolutions condemning the genocide) doesn’t make sense for geostrategical reasons (both in terms of stability in the Middle East and because it also damages the perception of America all over the World), so it must be something else driving it.
Is it simply impossible for you to imagine that other peoples have different opinions and viewpoints on things?
Just because it’s been ingrained into you that arabs are bad and they are all “shithole countries” or hezbollah is evil, doesn’t mean that others share that view. Ask yourself: Does Lebanon and Iran and Palestinians have a right to defend themselves?
And no that doesn’t mean I agree with either of those groups. I just realize that framing everything as a fight of good vs evil like it’s some fantasy movie where you can just slay the mindless orcs. These are human beings sick of imperialist aggression. Do you expect them to just lie down? Solutions are complicated and don’t involve just killing everyone who opposes you.
So of course Iran would have communication channels with Hezbollah or even support them.
The problem isn’t that my argument is weak, it’s that I have to make it in the first place. It’s fucking obvious except to the severely brainwashed, and then there is little point of making it instead of mocking them.
Is it simply impossible for you to imagine that other peoples have different opinions and viewpoints on things?
There are an infinity of viewpoints, and many (most?) of them will be wrong.
“Lebanon, Iran and the Palestinians can defend themselves” is not wrong.
“Lebanon and Iran are currently defending themselves” is wrong.
Lebanon isn’t even included in this, Hezbollah is not Lebanon. Iran is attacking Israel. They could stop doing that anytime and have Israel leave them alone. That includes giving up on their uranium enrichment.
Palestinians are a much more complicated situation, because the settler land theft is agression from Israel and should have stopped decades ago. But the current Palestinian leaders (both Hamas and Fatah) don’t actually care to solve that. They would rather have their citizens continue to die so they can continue getting richer. Which is why they encourage deadly attacks on civilian which will keep Netanyahu and his ilk in power, because Israelis like all humans tend to respond to violence with violence.
These are human beings sick of imperialist aggression.
Bullshit. How can you be so blind? Iran is led by right-wing theocrats leaders, they would be imperialist themselves if they could afford to. Actually they are, since they supported Syria when it fucking invaded Lebanon for 30 years. And then left Hezbollah to continue controlling the place, where it has more influence than the actual Lebanese governement, which is supposed to represent the Lebanese people.
Hezbollah does not act in the interest of the Lebanese people, they are murderous thugs that obey their masters in Tehran. If they truly wanted to help Lebanese people, they would not be shooting at Israel. There are so many things in terrible shape in Lebanon they could be fixing, but no, they are a large part of the problem because they want control over making things better.
Iran is attacking Israel. They could stop doing that anytime and have Israel leave them alone. That includes giving up on their uranium enrichment.
This is the ingrained propaganda that is clouding your understanding. Iran always complied (reasonably) with the NPT and seeks peaceful use of nuclear power. Just as Iraq didn’t have WMDs. These lies are framing their resistance and defense against imperialist aggression as aggression on their side.
Obviously Iran isn’t as nice and democratic, post racist and secular as the USA (/s) but they do have the right to defend themselves. Hezbollah is their tool. The US and Israel has theirs.
No argument here, that’s just America doing American things. I’d have Bush and his whole admin at the Hague if it was up to me. Not that Saddam deserved better, but the Iraqi did.
Last paragraph.
And you’re right, Iran has a right to defend themselves. But they aren’t defending themselves in this situation. You don’t defend yourself by having a proxy invade then another take control of a country so you can have it lob missiles at a third one without endangering yourself.
Why are you changing the topic? Yes, Israel using the situation to expand into palestinian territory is also despicable. But that doesn’t magically make military, militia or terrorist attacks against Israel an act of defense.
If you want to condemn Israel’s actions then the bare minimal requirement is not being even worse. At which countries openly supporting terrorists and calling for the destruction of a neighbouring country fail by definition.
Worse? We have numbers for the respective body counts. They probably killed more Palestinian children in the last 8 months alone than Israeli victims in the entire history of terrorism against Israel.
Israel had decades of superior military power to culturally genocide re-educate Palestinians and create peace. Instead they chose fascism, oppression, and violence against their neighbors.
Communication? Lebanon has a right to defend itself. It’s like questioning why Biden has a line to the Israel Prime Minister.
Hezbollah is a right wing religious militia, not the government of Lebanon
they’re not the government but they are a political party with 15 seats in the parliament.
And most political parties don’t sit on a stash of rockets and other military weapons.
There are more of them that do than there are that don’t. A militia wing is very common outside the western world.
Most political parties aren’t born out of resistance to Israeli Settler Colonialism
Irrelevant. Either they’re a political party or an armed militia.
Actually, it’s not irrelevant and they’re both!
Things are not that simple. Not all of Hezbollah are militants, there are many social workers and politicians
They are like the minutemen, but have worse PR.
Haha no. Take some time and read up maybe? All the info is available. Heck, maybe hop on a call and talk to some people in Lebanon? Anything. Just stop repeating nonsense.
But it ISN’T. The US mainstream media constantly lies and the US pushes propaganda all around the world. We’ve been fed disinformation for decades not just since Trump. So I can’t just read up on them without a deep dive in trying to first find neutral sources and read and then evaluate them. If you just read the standard version about them your perception is going to be warped. Like I said, they have bad PR, which really means prevailing propaganda brands them as evil.
I don’t like their religious views either but fundamentally they are guys in a militia fighting against foreign invaders and threats to their country.
Why do you think this?
Probably because Hezbollah maintains that Israel is still occupying Lebanon.
And they’re right about that.
Which territory specifically?
Shebaa Farms
Why should the US president be in regular contact with the perpetrator of an ongoing genocide?
Almost makes you think the US supports continued Israeli apartheid.
You’re asking why the US formed an ally 75 years ago with the only stable democracy in the middle east and has a continued interest in maintaining stability in the region?
Of course not, you can only operate in sound bytes, buzzwords and catchphrases.
Mind telling me how Israel is a table democracy? Or how they create stability? Maybe you can tell me why the middle east is a destabilized region to begin with?
I do mind telling you because I know I won’t get an informed discussion out of this thread. You want to talk ME politics? Start a new thread with specifics and let’s go over it. I’m not expending energy replying to buzz phrases with detailed responses. I’ve played this game and it sucks spending time and energy discussing something only to get back.
People use lazy catchphrases to describe me politics: I respond with more lazy catchphrases.
So you can’t then, got it.
You’re asking a rhetorical question in the hopes of getting a gotcha. Because, again, all you guys do is swim in catchphrases and vibes. Your primary goal here is not to deepen any kind of understanding. If you did, you would be a lot more honest in your questions. You’d open up with a clear argument, based on specifics, with dates, people, events etc.
No one is obligated to give you an essay on the last 75 years of ME geopolitics if all you do is start is with catchphrases and gotchas.
You want a nuanced discussion that delves into the specifics of the geopolitics of the region? Start a thread that’s not just diluted meaningless sentences, such as this nugget:
It’s hopeless, because you guys will bounce back and forth between one catchphrase or buzz sentence without opening a book, or a wikipedia page, or an article, or anything. And you want us to come here and write essays to explain or refute these meaningless sentiments. It’s all vibes. You start threads with vibes, you get vibes.
Apart with all the buzzwords; Current US politics for Israel is making US look bad on an international stage. There’s no point in behaving that way.
“only stable democracy” haha that old chestnut, you are deluded if you are ignoring the number of actual democracies in the ME that USA has helped topple or marginalised.
Haha let’s talk about 75 years of ME geopolitics using buzzwords and catchphrases. Haha.
haha let’s use the only parroted phrase you know again and again haha
If someone starts a conversation in buzzwords and catchphrases I will respond in kind. You don’t like it? Feel free to start another thread that doesn’t use catchphrase as the foundation and starting point for a conversation on me politics.
You guys want to have your cake and eat it. Pick one. Have a nuanced discussion about me politics or throw memes around. Don’t shit yourself because you don’t like what you see in the mirror.
It’s me. We can smear our feces together.
Whilst the first part of your point is correct IMHO, for the rest Israel has been the very opposite of a force for stability in the region and the non-conditionality of the US’ help has emboldened successive Israeli governments to behave worse and worse thus making the region less stable (one of their main concerns seems to be to stop nations around them from having stable democratic governments) rather than more.
I would say that ACAB and a bunch of very rich Americans with Fascist tendencies who happen to be Jewish and love the ethno-Fascism which is Zionism having bought American Politics (basically doing what Russia wanted to do and, unlike Russia, actually succeeding) is a far better explanation for continued American support of Israel, a theory that much better explains the unconditionality of the American support for Israel than the idea that it’s because of wanting stability in the Middle East.
Absolutelly, American support makes geostrategical sense up to a point. It’s just that we’re well beyond that point and the American support in its current form (weapon shipments, blocking UN resolutions condemning the genocide) doesn’t make sense for geostrategical reasons (both in terms of stability in the Middle East and because it also damages the perception of America all over the World), so it must be something else driving it.
Pagers are one directional, and cant be traced.
To view a different way, why do they have a pager, rather than just calling an embassy, “state department” or cell phone?
If they have nothing to hide, why don’t they let themselves be killed?
That’s a very weak arguement - you’re communicating with the embassy and ambassador of a recognized country.
Is it simply impossible for you to imagine that other peoples have different opinions and viewpoints on things?
Just because it’s been ingrained into you that arabs are bad and they are all “shithole countries” or hezbollah is evil, doesn’t mean that others share that view. Ask yourself: Does Lebanon and Iran and Palestinians have a right to defend themselves?
And no that doesn’t mean I agree with either of those groups. I just realize that framing everything as a fight of good vs evil like it’s some fantasy movie where you can just slay the mindless orcs. These are human beings sick of imperialist aggression. Do you expect them to just lie down? Solutions are complicated and don’t involve just killing everyone who opposes you.
So of course Iran would have communication channels with Hezbollah or even support them.
The problem isn’t that my argument is weak, it’s that I have to make it in the first place. It’s fucking obvious except to the severely brainwashed, and then there is little point of making it instead of mocking them.
There are an infinity of viewpoints, and many (most?) of them will be wrong.
Lebanon isn’t even included in this, Hezbollah is not Lebanon. Iran is attacking Israel. They could stop doing that anytime and have Israel leave them alone. That includes giving up on their uranium enrichment.
Palestinians are a much more complicated situation, because the settler land theft is agression from Israel and should have stopped decades ago. But the current Palestinian leaders (both Hamas and Fatah) don’t actually care to solve that. They would rather have their citizens continue to die so they can continue getting richer. Which is why they encourage deadly attacks on civilian which will keep Netanyahu and his ilk in power, because Israelis like all humans tend to respond to violence with violence.
Bullshit. How can you be so blind? Iran is led by right-wing theocrats leaders, they would be imperialist themselves if they could afford to. Actually they are, since they supported Syria when it fucking invaded Lebanon for 30 years. And then left Hezbollah to continue controlling the place, where it has more influence than the actual Lebanese governement, which is supposed to represent the Lebanese people.
Hezbollah does not act in the interest of the Lebanese people, they are murderous thugs that obey their masters in Tehran. If they truly wanted to help Lebanese people, they would not be shooting at Israel. There are so many things in terrible shape in Lebanon they could be fixing, but no, they are a large part of the problem because they want control over making things better.
This is the ingrained propaganda that is clouding your understanding. Iran always complied (reasonably) with the NPT and seeks peaceful use of nuclear power. Just as Iraq didn’t have WMDs. These lies are framing their resistance and defense against imperialist aggression as aggression on their side.
Obviously Iran isn’t as nice and democratic, post racist and secular as the USA (/s) but they do have the right to defend themselves. Hezbollah is their tool. The US and Israel has theirs.
I see you aren’t engaging most of my comment. That’s fine, hopefully it made you think at least.
You can’t claim things like “Israel must be wiped off the map” (Iranian source before you continue with the propaganda accusations) and pretend you are enriching uranium over the needed amount for civilian use for peaceful purposes.
No argument here, that’s just America doing American things. I’d have Bush and his whole admin at the Hague if it was up to me. Not that Saddam deserved better, but the Iraqi did.
And you’re right, Iran has a right to defend themselves. But they aren’t defending themselves in this situation. You don’t defend yourself by having a proxy invade then another take control of a country so you can have it lob missiles at a third one without endangering yourself.
“Defend” themselves against Israel daring to exist?
Right, Israel just needs a bit more lebensraum in the east / the west bank.
Why are you changing the topic? Yes, Israel using the situation to expand into palestinian territory is also despicable. But that doesn’t magically make military, militia or terrorist attacks against Israel an act of defense.
If you want to condemn Israel’s actions then the bare minimal requirement is not being even worse. At which countries openly supporting terrorists and calling for the destruction of a neighbouring country fail by definition.
Worse? We have numbers for the respective body counts. They probably killed more Palestinian children in the last 8 months alone than Israeli victims in the entire history of terrorism against Israel.
Israel had decades of superior military power to
culturally genocidere-educate Palestinians and create peace. Instead they chose fascism, oppression, and violence against their neighbors.