I think a little clarification is needed. No. I don’t actually think everyone there is insane. I don’t care about the bans so stop trying to use that. HB enthusiasts coming here and trying to call me out achieves nothing besides proving my point

Edit: Feel free to keep trying to brigade me. It’s not going to scare me to take this down

  • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    Most of the Lemmy.World users and mods are actively advocating to vote for Genocide, so i understand that Hexbear is a culture shock.

    • DarkCloud@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      That vote was made in the Obama era. There’s a 35 billion dollar funding scheme for Israel that’s bin full swing.

      Stopping it would require a lot of changes across multiple stratas of government and legal procedures.

      … it’s not as simple as “the president” or “the party” can just stop a long term international set of contracts across industries and government agencies and departments.

      The video “Rules for Rulers” by YouTuber CPGGrey covers some of this.

      • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        In this case the rulers are not listening to their constituents and being extremely corrupt. Meaning their constituents should stop supporting said rulers.

        it’s not as simple as “the president” or “the party” can just stop a long term international set of contracts across industries and government agencies and departments.

        It is called Leahy law, and the current president is actively violating the law by sending weapons to israel which uses them to commit war crimes.

        • DarkCloud@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          To play devil’s advocate, leahy law;

          …prohibits the U.S. Department of State and Department of Defense from providing military assistance to foreign security force units that violate human rights with impunity.

          But the fact that Israel is a democracy, suggests there are reprocessions, eg. Netenyahu could lose the election, and even face reprocessions from the next elected leader. So that’s not acting “with impunity”.

          Israel has taken measures to make their genocide look considered (eg. Dropping flyers, naming bombing targets)… And to some extent, anyone wanting to claim they’re acting woth impunity (although it’s highly unlikely they’ll ever see reprocessions) - will have similar issues to those faced at Nuremberg, where the US didn’t want to invent laws to accuse them of being guilty of or having violated (as that would look like a kangaroo court, or future crime)…

          …and unfortunately, due to the US having it’s own patchy human rights record, they avoid being a signatatory to international courts like The Hague.

          So yeah, your claim wouldn’t be substantiated. It’s not that simple, you may as we’ll be claiming we can “reform our way our of Capitalism”… That’s a nice idea (as Leahy Law is), but they’re just not practically applicable.

          Which is why I directed people to the “Rules for Rulers” video (by CPG grey), because it explains these basics to Socialists who basically live in these fantasy land conceptions of politics.

          Of course fantasy land conceptions get upvotes, reality checks get downvotes, it’s a great system, designed to cause mental stagnation and “apathy through idealism” in the masses.

          • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            This is an israel problem not a Netanyahu problem.

            Also israel is not a Democracy it is an Apartheid.

            • DarkCloud@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              Both, it’s a Netenyahu problem and it’s attached to conspiracy theories around the assassination of the guy before him. The right wing captured cultural territory there that the progressive left have never been able to shift back, and it resulted in a lot of the population shifting to the right.

              • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
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                2 months ago

                In any case “the leader might lose an election” is not what the “with impunity” clause entails.

                Hitler also killed himself at the end of WW2, I doubt that could be used as an excuse to justify giving free weapons to the Nazis.

                • DarkCloud@lemmy.world
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                  2 months ago

                  The US was at war with Hitler, and has given other genocidal regimes weapons.

                  That’s not where my interest lays, it lays in practical, and applicable solutions.

                  You don’t have any, I don’t have any.

                  • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
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                    2 months ago

                    Of course it’s impossible to prosecute the government with the largest military in the world.

                    That’s not where my interest lays, it lays in practical, and applicable solutions.

                    I don’t think you are arguing with bad intentions. but the premise of playing devils advocate is about the legality of sending weapons to israel, not whether the people doing it can get away with it which is the more practical side.

                    Practically Biden can (and is required to) enforce Leahy law. Whether he follows the law is a different matter.

            • DarkCloud@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              But also, if you’re trying to apply US law, then they don’t have to be a functional democracy - just recognized as one by the US.

              So that’s a naive approach.

      • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        There’s definitely some users there who go too far in their support for other imperialist superpowers like Russia and China.

        Because if America bad Russia and China good is an easy train of thought. Imperialism bad is a more difficult pill to accept.

        But users there moreso question whether certain atrocities happened. They’re not saying ‘yeah the CCP is currently Genociding Uyghurs in concentration camps. but you have to vote for Xi Jingping to save Democracy’.

        Occasionally I do find they have a point in the West exaggerating others crimes. I mostly started noticing this after Hamas supposedly beheaded 40 babies in ovens which our media blasted as fact without questioning it. Though other times there is usually a base of truth which is undeniable.

        But admitting that your side is doing Genocide and still advocating for them comes off as far more insane to me than denying their crimes.

        • carl_marks[use name]@lemmy.ml
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          2 months ago

          their support for other imperialist superpowers like Russia and China

          I wonder what definition of imperialism you’re using. China doesn’t have a financial capitalist class which influences it’s government to seek foreign markets (i.e. overthrow foreign governments to privatize their state assets for the financial capitalist class to buy up)

          Because if America bad Russia and China good is an easy train of thought.

          It may seem to lib outside observers like that

          But users there moreso question whether certain atrocities happened. They’re not saying ‘yeah the CCP is currently Genociding Uyghurs in concentration camps. but you have to vote for Xi Jingping to save Democracy’.

          Tell me you haven’t lurked there without having told me you having lurked there and talking out of your ass.

          • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            China most definitely has billionaires in cahoots with the government. Evergrande is a great example of this. Asianometry did a great video on how deep it goes with receipts.

            I’ve had two discussions with users about the Uyghur camps which were not able to address the base of my concerns. While they are definitely very exaggerated in size, the notion that they don’t exist seems unfounded. Though I’m open for discussion on it.

            • carl_marks[use name]@lemmy.ml
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              2 months ago

              China most definitely has billionaires in cahoots with the government

              Imperialism is when billionaires. The more billionaires you have the imperialister it is

              Also https://redsails.org/china-has-billionaires/

              I’ve had two discussions with users about the Uyghur camps which were not able to address the base of my concerns.

              Sounds like you were concern trolling, because the burden of proof is on the accuser

              • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
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                2 months ago

                Your statement about China not having a financialist capital class seemed slightly out of touch so I provided you with examples of some Chinese capital class. Communism is when not billionaires. The more Billionaires you have to less communism it is.

                As for the imperialism I only hear the same argument as for Western imperialism: someone drew lines on a map 200 years ago and it said Xinjiang and Tibet were part of China. So despite them speaking a different language it’s now 100% ours for rizzle.

                  • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
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                    2 months ago

                    I read a bit of the link and it was mostly mid mumbling that mentioned faults of China and then moved on as if addressing them solves them.

                    Then it proceeded to misdiagnose what greed is and pretend capitalism is a system designed around greed instead of greed being innate to humans.

                    Then I stopped because it doesn’t answer any of the questions.

                    I’m not saying everything China does is bad, certainly to grow as superpower when the West tries to overthrow all competition is massive achievement. But people are all too willing to deny faults of China.