The sub went missing while carrying five people to the wreckage of the Titanic.

  • 1bluepixel@kbin.social
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    1 year ago

    The game controller thing gets meme’d to death, but I don’t think people focus on the right thing.

    Xbox controllers are also used by the US Navy, among other branches of the military.

    These are GOOD pieces of engineering, and they’re tested by millions of users under pretty strenuous conditions. However, the controller the Oceangate was using was some shitty-ass third-party controller that you can get for peanuts off Amazon.

    THAT, IMO, is the issue that this piece of equipment illustrates. A solid Xbox Series S controller is $60 on Amazon, and you’re telling me you had to go for cheaper?

    • Phanatik@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      I don’t think the fact that the controller was wireless gets highlighted enough. Bluetooth devices have a hard time working above sea level and you’re expecting it to work 3800m below the surface. Delusional.

      • pjoter@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        BT devices got problems only when water is in between anetna1 and antena2. It does not matter at what altitude the devices are, just what is inbetween them.

          • GizmoLion@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            Well yes, if they use something in a way specifically contraindicated by the nature of the technology then that’s problematic.
            Do you have evidence that this was the case, or are you moving the goal posts to the “no shit sherlock” zone for an easy win?

            • PabloDiscobar@kbin.social
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              1 year ago

              Do you have evidence that this was the case, or are you moving the goal posts to the “no shit sherlock” zone for an easy win?

              Don’t put on me your burden of proof.

              Well yes, if they use something in a way specifically contraindicated by the nature of the technology then that’s problematic.

              Well, turns out they did. So now that we have established that they don’t follow protocol, are you going to show us their design or are you going to reddit your way out of this conversation?

              • GizmoLion@kbin.social
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                1 year ago

                Source that they did? I’ve seen nothing to support that to date.

                or are you going to reddit your way out of this conversation?
                Wtf? Was that an attempt at condescension?

                • PabloDiscobar@kbin.social
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                  1 year ago

                  Source that they did? I’ve seen nothing to support that to date.

                  That’s exactly my point, no one here has any source about the design. Why don’t YOU ask the people above about THEIR source?

                  Do you have evidence that this was the case, or are you moving the goal posts to the “no shit sherlock” zone for an easy win?

                  Don’t act surprised when I answer you the same way you answer me. Now either you bring some source to support the question that was made by someone above you or I’m done. I’m not your source magic machine.

                  The person who started this chain of conversation is gone btw. I don’t know the point you are trying to make.

                  • GizmoLion@kbin.social
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                    1 year ago

                    The guy above is correct, altitude has no effect on the BT transmission. You can assume they used the tech in a way it can’t (or nearly can’t) be used if you want, I guess. I’m not going to go and prove that they didn’t because that was your assertion, not mine. The vessel had many successful dives before this happened, so logic would dictate that the wireless implementation was working.

          • FlowVoid@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            If you want to command something in the water, you run a wire from that something to a receiver in the cabin.

            • GizmoLion@kbin.social
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              1 year ago

              Right, exactly. Or for a “sub” that only holds 5 people… maybe just spend the 10 cents and wire it lol.

              • FlowVoid@kbin.social
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                1 year ago

                I mean, the sub had reached Titanic several times, right?

                So even without the design documents, we know it was previously capable of operating at depth.

                Which we means we know the hull wasn’t made of cotton candy, we know it wasn’t propelled under water by an internal combustion engine, and we know it wasn’t controlled by a device that stops working in water.

          • SporkBomber@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            That’s dealing with communication through the water. Presumably the controller wouldn’t have water between it and its receiver under ideal conditions.

          • iThinkergoiMac@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            Your link is for wireless transmissions going through water. In this case, it’s still going through air.

            It’s not the altitude or depth that matters, it’s the medium through which the signal goes. It will work just fine, from a technical standpoint.

            That being said, wireless things are inherently unreliable compared to wired, and it’s stupid to make something so important not as reliable as possible.

            • PabloDiscobar@kbin.social
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              1 year ago

              It’s not the altitude or depth that matters, it’s the medium through which the signal goes. It will work just fine, from a technical standpoint.

              I know that. What makes you think that the other part was not in the water? Do you have any source for that?

                • PabloDiscobar@kbin.social
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                  1 year ago

                  aka “the easy way out”.

                  You take for granted that the wireless was for inside equipment, I don’t. I asked if someone has a source about the design but no one brought anything. That’s where we are.

                  You don’t need no attitude here, if you know something then write it and mention the source.

          • HeartyBeast@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            Well - how about out if the receiver is on the the hull - and the bluetooth signals don’t have to travel through any water?

            • PabloDiscobar@kbin.social
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              1 year ago

              Maybe. And? Don’t overthink it, I’m answering to someone who boldly claimed:

              “OK. Explain why they would have more trouble working at that depth”

              and who is long gone btw.

                • PabloDiscobar@kbin.social
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                  1 year ago

                  Well, I gave you a reason why it would cause problem, if the device piloted was out, in the water.

                  Do you have a schematic of the sub? I don’t.

                  • HeartyBeast@kbin.social
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                    1 year ago

                    Do you have a schematic of the sub? I don’t.

                    You were the one who called the decision to use Bluetooth “Delusional”. I’m the one who said we have no idea whether it was a good idea or not - so I think we can leave it here.

      • Unaware7013@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        Does higher air pressure affect Bluetooth signals?

        Also, buy better Bluetooth devices, I haven’t had to deal with disconnections with quality modern gear outside of battery issues. My first run steam controller hasn’t given me any issues with wireless connections while playing, and all of my headphones stay connected to the proper device even when I’m stupid far away (like, I left my phone in the car and I didn’t notice any drop in quality until after I entered the store).

    • dorokian@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      Also, backups: the controller doesn’t bother me that much UNLESS they had no redundancies for it failing plus checklists. I.E. controller battery dies, use second controller, use wired controller, use control screen, etc. And backup mechanical linkages for critical stuff. I don’t know the details but if they lacked these things, then they are (were) definitely morons.

      • wjrii@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        For what it’s worth, in one of the old videos the CEO did, he mentioned that they kept two or three of the controllers on board. I think the stuff about game controllers and RV gear is overblown and almost certainly not what caused the problem. The bigger issue to me is the fact that they picked “exotic” materials for the pressure vessel (which while strong, are more brittle and fail more dramatically than steel), didn’t get them properly tested or certified, and if they somehow had been found adrift, put no engineering effort into escape or communication in an emergency.

        Though thinking about it, I guess the game controller thing is relevant, at least to the extent it points at a pennywise and pound-foolish operation trying to value-engineer a business to go to the bottom of the god-damn ocean. Carbon fiber and tungsten sound amazing, until you realize that a big part of using them was to create a vessel big enough for 5 that was also small and light enough that it could be toted aboard any ship they could rent, and would then be set free from its launch sled by dudes undoing bungee cords.

        • Bucket_of_Truth@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          The thing is that if they cheap out on one area then you have to think “what else did they skimp on?” Like if they’re that careless about what you can see you should be terrified of what you can’t.

          And it’d be one thing if we were all just laughing at some tech bro fulfilling his wacky dream and using some odd parts, its a totally different conversation now that we know the sub imploded. The guy probably cut every corner possible and if those people with him had said “hey, this sub uses shitty consumer grade parts, I’m out” they would be alive still.

          • wjrii@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            I mean, it wasn’t the bungee cords’ fault either. Just sad all around, really, especially the 19 year old who was either dragged along or shouldn’t have been indulged.

            • AthiestLoki@kbin.social
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              1 year ago

              According to the kid’s aunt, he’d told a relative he was terrified and didn’t really want to go, and the only reason he went is because it was on Father’s Day weekend and he wanted to make his dad happy.

    • hypelightfly@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      The military uses them for autonomous vehicles. There is no risk of loss of life involved if they fail. They also aren’t the only control mechanism.

    • Xiphorang@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      The navy uses wired controllers to operate periscopes, not wireless ones, and not for anything mission critical. Although I think I remember reading some military drones are or were at one point using controllers because they’re easy to train people on, but those are unmanned.

    • Bucket_of_Truth@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      Sure they use “Xbox controllers,” the difference in build quality between an authentic Xbox controller and most 3rd party controllers is pretty noticeable.