Ignore the bourgeois beauty standards
Fast not for thinness or weight loss.
Fast for the lowered alcohol tolerance so you can get drunk quicker thus saving money.
We would not have to worry about our weight if we lived within a normal food environment. But we don’t. The truth is that our food supply is contanimated and poisoned. There are no other words for it. It’s gotten to the point that it’s not even about the excess of sugar or whatever that is contained in our food - although there is an excess of sugar - it’s about hyper processed, industrialized edible substances which are designed in a lab to overrule our hormonal and neurological pathways that regulate appetite and metabolism.
80 years ago someone might be somewhat overweight, and that balance will start shifting further with age as their body reacts differently to protein and packs on slightly more fat and slightly less lean muscle mass. That reasonable coating of fat compared to everyone else is down to age, genetics, epigenetics, and does confer health benefits. But it was not obesity except for around 1% of the population. It was not widespread non alcoholic fatty liver syndrome or type 2 diabetes. Because in the world of today, once you have enough food to feed your population, the only way to grow a food company is to erode traditional cooking culture and to induce people to overeat. Capitalism is the systemic problem, not the lack of diet and exercise. Or bad parenting for that matter.
So ultimately there are two dimensions to this. On an individual basis it is illogical not to worry about your weight. Just as it is illogical not to worry about becoming addicted to a harmful substance. Because you and your family and friends are under attack by the capitalist mold of our food companies. They create soft, addictive food that prey on the most vulnerable amongst us. And render ALL of us sick. Full on obesity fucks up your joints, your breathing and your heart. But it’s not just a complicating factor, it’s a symptom that not everyone shows. A plurality of thin people are also on the road to fatty liver syndrome and type 2 diabetes. They often just don’t know it.
Whereas on a societal level we require a large political pushback that forces government to deal with the hyper processed menace. Hyper processed goods, sugar, white bread, fruit juice, and so on must all be treated with the same fear as cigarettes and the same respect as alcohol. And it won’t be easy getting there. The food industry lobby is powerful as fuck, global and capable of toppling governments. From what I understand, when the Brazilian government issued the new dietary guidelines, opposition from the food industry was so severe it nearly killed the administration. And what it recommended boiled down to ‘avoid hyper processed goods, use processed goods as part of a meal centered on in natura goods, cook more often and as a part of a family and social experience’.
When we start doing just that, we might not become the thinnest person in our social group. But we have such a better time at life. Once we are free from addiction food is more nourishing, taste better, and all the underlying psychological issues that tie us to that addiction become something we can actually tackle.
You can bet however that there’s a legion of highly paid ghouls whose job is to keep you under lock and chain. The most dangerous words in the english language today are: a calorie is a calorie, and it’s your personal responsibility that you’re fat and sick.
You can bet however that there’s a legion of highly paid ghouls whose job is to keep you under lock and chain. The most dangerous words in the english language today are: a calorie is a calorie, and it’s your personal responsibility that you’re fat and sick.
All that you said does, can, and will continue to be dismissed by I-Fucking-Love-Science types that want to bully overweight people under technically correct chants of “CICO,” or “calories in calories out.” It makes them feel superior, bolsters the belief in the infinite capacity for willpower for those worthy enough (implying everyone else deserves contempt or worse), and they have a convenient sciency out if they’re confronted with their bullying.
So here’s the thing, I don’t really face these sorts of people IRL. Or even this sort of thinking, much. But I do run into the incomplete thinking about calories. To which I try to give a short and straightforward answer. Losing weight is Calories and Calories out, but not all Calories are the same. There are calories that are unfulfilling. There are Calories that are addictive. There are Calories that make you sick. You wouldn’t go on a diet to lose weight and improve your health by counting 1500 calories of whisky every day because that’d be insane.
From then on you can open the discussion towards all the other pitfalls of modern diet. Soft, white bread. Fruit juice. Mayonnaise, other industrialized sauces. And so on. Eventually you can work all the way to recognizing ultra processed food for what it is. It’s not food, it’s industrialized edible substances meant make you addicted.
That said, I do have a personal experience with being a bigot myself. I’ve lost weight twice in my life. Once currently. The first time was nearly ten years ago. I did so mostly for aesthetics, I was young and healthy at the time. And I didn’t do anything out of the ordinary. I went to a nutritionist, got their input, adapted it a bit to my tastes and just ate smaller portions while doing increasingly more intense water workouts on my own. This allowed me to lose about 30 kilos and improved my life considerably. Then, for health reasons, I could no longer exercise. I had to go through surgery and that sent me on a depressive spiral where I regained that weight and some more over the course of the decade.
Here’s the thing though, I believed that my primary motivator was the chaining of exercise and dieting with one another. If I exercise that morning, then I’ve got too much sunk investment not to eat less over the day. But there were other more toxic behaviors that kept me on the game. I browsed the subreddit fatlogic every single day, just so I could feel superior to these caricatures of people who really are victims not only of their own decisions, but of the food environment they exist in. Cardboard cutouts of fat activists and addicted people meant to be raged at, gawked at. Once I could no longer exercise I became human again. I could no longer gawk at anyone. I was just another sick person in this sick world.
Today I’ve lost 35 kilos, there’s still a few ways more I wish to go. My exercises are much milder. I’ve learned how to cook. I’ve learned all the there was to reasonably learn about metabolic pathways and hyper processed food. I do exercise by walking around my neighborhood, which is pleasing in itself (it’s not the nicest place but it’s home). My diet is focused on my daily well being, so while I do count calories the key thing I do is that I practice fasting because it does make me feel better. Overall, I think I’ve entered a much more conscious path to self improvement that has rendered me completely disgusted at the subreddit. I can’t really read it anymore. It’s not just because I don’t need it. It’s because it runs counter to the person I’ve become after struggling with the food addiction, having a ‘fall from grace’, and now entering a much surer phase of the struggle that truly approaches a sustained victory.
At the end of the day CICO is like finding a lifeboat. It’s not unimportant, it’s you surviving in the storm. But when it comes to the poisoning of our food supply, CICO is not enough. What you need is solidarity. What you need is to save the ship from sinking with the rest of the crew in it. And Solidarity is all about policy, looking after society, and really just treating people not as things but as people. Confronting their issues, but always extending a hand. There’s no such thing as cruel kindness, just as there’s no such thing as pure niceness. You’re either kind or you’re not.
From the New York Crimes
It’s the opposite where I live. Food isn’t abundant here so we tend to be on the leaner side. City dwellers will comment on what “great shape” we’re in and we just laugh because it’s not like we had much of a choice in being thin.
Yeah lol. Though in South Africa there’s that, and also the people that become overweight from just eating cheap carbohydrates and not much else . So you get both high rates of malnutrition and obesity
The focus should be on nutrition and exercise, not aesthetics. Just cooking 80-90% of my meals, not eating or drinking a bunch of empty calories, and going for a walk/run/bike ride at least 4 times per week was enough to lose 25lbs a few summers ago. But I wasn’t focused on weight, I just wanted to stop feeling like shit all the time. I had a ton of energy and my sleep was better, too. Kind of fell off the wagon but I’m getting back there after I started cooking again recently.
While individuals can find space for weight loss regimes, it really is a society-level problem.
Consider an experiment with two populations of rats. One population gets a normal amount of food, the other gets the same food with a bunch of added sugar. Of course the population with added sugar gets fatter. But, while the average rat may have gained 10% weight or whatever, on an individual level you’ll see a wide range of results - some rats aren’t effected by the increased sugar, some gain a small amount of weight, some gain a lot.
This is basically exactly what we’ve done to ourselves in capitalist society over the past seventy-ish years, taken our previous diet and jacked it up with a ton of sugar (and other additives and a lot of increased volume). But while with the rats it’s easy to see that all you have to do to return the overweight population to normal is to stop adding sugar to their food, with humans we can’t see that because we’ve created a system that blames you for getting sick.
It’s like building a coal power plant in the middle of a neighborhood, and then blaming the residents when they start getting asthma or worse, and holding up the people who won the genetic lottery and don’t get lung disease as the example we should all strive to replicate.
Worth remembering - within certain ranges obesity isn’t actually correlated with poor health outcomes, the stress of trying to maintain a strict diet regime causes chronic stress damage by itself, chronic stress and environmental factors have at least as much to do with obesity as what you eat, poverty and things like food deserts or just not having the time, energy, or money to cook drives obesity, depression drives obesity, sedentary lifestyles drive obesity.
And, the most important one - considerably more than 90% of people who undertake a calorie restriction diet regain all the lost weight, or more, within 5 years.
Like don’t get me wrong, i hate the way I look and would be thrilled to drop 70 pounds, but the obsession with weight is anti-scientific, actively counter-productive, and viciously individualizes societal problems. For people who aren’t so heavy that it’s causing serious impairment in mobility cardio and a little strength training are far more important than worrying about weight, and the evidence pretty clearly says that struggling to lose weight is worse for your health than not doing that.
And, the most important one - considerably more than 90% of people who undertake a calorie restriction diet regain all the lost weight, or more, within 5 years.
That doesn’t mean much really. The failure rate for going vegetarian or vegan is about the same, between 80-90%. It’s about the same for any major dietary change. Changing what you eat is extremely difficult, no matter what the change is, weather it’s eating less, eating more, or eating different foods. Most people will fall back into old habits at some point. It’s not an individual problem, it’s a problem with the food industry and society, like you said in the last paragraph. That doesn’t mean individuals shouldn’t try change where they can though. It’s much harder than it should be, but it is worthwhile at the end of the day.
That doesn’t mean much really. The failure rate for going vegetarian or vegan is about the same, between 80-90%. It’s about the same for any major dietary change. Changing what you eat is extremely difficult, no matter what the change is, weather it’s eating less, eating more, or eating different foods. Most people will fall back into old habits at some point. It’s not an individual problem, it’s a problem with the food industry and society, like you said in the last paragraph. That doesn’t mean individuals shouldn’t try change where they can though. It’s much harder than it should be, but it is worthwhile at the end of the day.
I mean, it does mean much. It means that any attempt at doing so is more or less fruitless and people who say otherwise are just exhibiting confirmation bias and are almost certainly more privileged than the 90%. And of course I’d also say that’s why moralizing vegetarian or vegan diets is also nonsense for the same reason.
No, it really doesn’t mean much. Claiming it’s fruitless to try to make a lifestyle change because most people who try fail isn’t helpful to anyone. About 85% of former smokers relapse within the first year, but if a friend of yours wanted to quit smoking, would you tell them “oh, you shouldn’t even try because you’ll just fail anyway”? I would personally encourage them and try to be a support system they could lean on! Likewise, if I had an overweight friend who wanted to lose weight, I’d support them!
When I was obese and losing weight, I appreciated my friends who supported and encouraged me a whole lot more than the “friends” who tried to sabotage me by telling me stuff like “weight loss is impossible for most people.” (And both groups of friends had underweight, overweight, and normal weight people.)
I know it’s not your main point but I think this is a bad argument against veganism. Yes it’s hard not to eat flesh in a flesh-eating society. How else are we supposed to build a society that allows people to be vegan? Even under socialism, governments won’t ban slaughterhouses or whatever without a movement asking them to. The presence of just a few resolute vegans allows other people the social space to do the same thing. One vegan goes hungry at the pizza party. If you have three, maybe you order falafel instead.
has had a longstanding /r/FatPeopleHate fixation that didn’t go away when that sub was banned. Chanting “CALORIES IN CALORIES OUT” was another technically correct way to be a hateful asshole under pretense of concern that was actually concern trolling. They wanted overweight people to be miserable and to suffer to get off to their vaguely higher position on the social acceptability hierarchy.It isn’t directly personal to me. I’m in good shape for my age, all things considered. But I have loved ones that are overweight, are putting in real effort to be healthier all the same, and yes, weight obsession doesn’t help them at all and I think at this point the cruelty from those howling about it is intentional.
technically correct
Is it? The first law of thermodynamics applies to closed systems
I used to know a mod of that sub. He is now a cop and officer in the national guard, so that tracks.
