- cross-posted to:
- freeforum@exploding-heads.com
- cross-posted to:
- freeforum@exploding-heads.com
So I mean, most of us knew this beforehand and being on the fediverse we probably do not really care, but what was always on the horizon has no happened, the owner of Squabblr finally had enough having to be a decent person and has decided that his site is now “free speech purism”, so he gets to continue to insult LGBTQ people like he always does.
Seems from the comments that some other admins disagreed with the decision (so there were some decent people on that site!) and either left or were removed.
Not entirely surprising the whole thing, granted.
(edit)
Also, apologies as this isn’t truly reddit news but Squabblr was one of the sites frequently brought up in /r/redditalternatives so I figured this might still be relevant?
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A ton of people flocked there because they think the Fediverse is too confusing, so now they’re going to Discuit.
I have accounts on both out of curiosity, but I had a feeling something weird was going to go down on Squabblr. I just got a weird vibe from that place at first. I am not sure about Discuit yet, but it’s yet another centralized service people are using because the fediverse is “too confusing”…
Yeah I’ve literally made accounts in squabbles and lemmy at the same time. At first squabbles was great, but somehow there’s something there that I couldn’t describe. I continued to go to lemmy but I’ve stopped going to squabbles for weeks now. And suddenly this!
Sometimes our instinct is spot on and we got to listen to it more often.
The commitment to tweet-like self posts is what made me leave. I don’t like posting an image or article without being able to provide a title.
Way too much drama on there. It’s like every week you have to catch up on what happened.
I honestly prefer fediverse remain as that complex open source alt, because it’s one of the few filters we have for users here.
I honestly don’t believe rapid growth is healthy for any platform, and we’ve even seen it here with how comments and memes are getting increasingly vitriolic and offensive. Fuck, antivax memes are starting to appear on lemmy.ml’s meme community.
I’m starting to think Beehaw had the right idea with vetting users, because there people here who think Lemmy should be another 4chan.
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I disagree. There are lots of good people out there who are not technical.
ok but then theh might lose their cool kids club and we wouldn’t want to not feel special and smart for… making an account on a website
How is make an account on an instance, got to all, subscribe to interesting places, hard? It’s almost the exact same formula as Reddit
When the majority of the world has been using centralised platforms that don’t have the complexities federated platforms do, it’s understandable that there will be people that get confused over why there are several “Lemmy” servers, or why they can’t sign into a Lemmy server when they signed up on another, or why when they try to find a Lemmy community on their server they can’t see it, but they can in Google.
Somehow email providers have avoided this problem, I think because they are pre-installed on devices as the “Email” app.
I don’t think it’s that complex though, I signed up my so and they wondered why everyone said it was so hard.
- Go to Lemmy.world and make an account on your desktop or browser on your phone.
- Go to liftoff on the playstore and attach it.
- Look for communities in search that sound fun or look at Lemmy.world’s communities.
- The end.
Don’t forget: try to sign up but that instance is having issues and you don’t even get a notification to let you know whether your application is pending.
This. And then get a link to a post on another instance where it just takes you to the website where you don’t have an account. It’s not very clear how that should work. It’s fine on phone apps but I’ve gotten stuck on the web a few times already.
Seriously though, how does it work? Is there a way to not have the “you must sign in” warning?
It’s still confusing, but if you look at this post where it says that this was posted to Reddi@lemmy.world, the URL actually goes to https://lemm.ee/c/reddit@lemmy.world (for me) so that’s how you’d view that instance if you were on another one. Doesn’t seem like there is a smart way for URL’s in comments to work like that though.
Edit: Well look at that. A Bot replied with the fix.
Do you know if they would have been able to do all of that on their own?
Probably not, because it’s not explained that succinctly on the front page. That’s why we all help others come here and get people to join the way I did.
Sometimes it’s all about laziness, some people are just too lazy to put more effort to learn new things. I felt it too, I wanted the familiar, but the death of 3rd party apps finally pushed me to learn hot to lemmy. And I’m glad that I did.
It’s not laziness per se. It about the barrier for entry being too high. If they wanted to enter (as you did) they would find a way (as you have). However most people have other higher priorities and don’t really know if they want to enter so they do nothing. If the entry barrier is lowered (maybe by adding helpful pic/vid explaining how it works/where to go, a platform walk-through, people/celebs/influencers talking about their experiences, simple sign up requirements, easy searching, etc.) many more people would easily come in as it’s wouldn’t be as confusing to join.
You maybe correct. But I think that barrier you are saying is both am advantage and a disadvantage. For the long term it is a disadvantage since it prevents our site from growing. But in the short term it is an advantage in a sense that it helps our currently small insular group form our own identity and prevent our bidding lemmy culture from being drowned out.
In short it keeps the “normies” numbers to an acceptable level.
We need more topical instances. Nobody found PHPBB’s confusing. Let people sign up for an account on the blindness instance, and the cooking instance, and the gaming instance. Eventually they’ll discover that they can use one account for everything, and it’s just easier to do it that way. But in the meantime they’re not confused. We’re probably going to market rblind.com that way; a spot for blind folks to network. Eventually they’ll discover the federated communities on there own, without us pushing it on them.
Those boards didn’t share any information though. People had different usernames often. The fact that all of this federates makes it more confusing. I’ve already clicked a link, gotten redirected to an instance I don’t have an account but looks visually the same and am confused why I got logged out. Luckily I have a password manager that doesn’t autofill or that kind of system is going to be a treasure trove of phishing.
It’s much better now, but at the first I gave up because I couldn’t figure out how to even sign up due to the rather poor web design. And I’m a programmer.
It’s identical to Reddit. I don’t get it either. Federation is completely optional but people act like it’s forced upon them.
People can’t seem to compute the fact that each Fediverse site is basically like email in reddit/twitter form.
The first step is choose a server. On reddit you sign up for reddit, on Twitter you sign up for twitter, but on Lemmy you sign up for an instance that functions as a copy of the site that talks to other copies. And the choice of instance does matter because the admins run that instance. Already, the vast majority of normies are out.
It’s even easier on kbin since it shares pretty much the same general layout as Reddit.
Not only is the Fediverse puzzling, but it also struggles to clarify its essence; the majority lack an understanding of its functioning
My only complaint about it right now is that most instances only know about communities that are hosted there or that their users deliberately subscribe to. Which works fine for huge instances like lemmy.world, but small instances that aren’t running federation helper bots just don’t have much of an All feed, and initiating federation requests to remote communities you heard of through a directory or elsewhere is a confusing process.
“The fediverse” is puzzling, but Lemmy is simple. I find it weird people get so off put by sites just because they allow Federation. Like- are those same users going to quit Threads when it enables Activitypub? Just seems like a really weird place to draw the line.
I went there because it was simpler and more like reddit. Once this shit started to brew a few weeks ago I noped right out of there. Lemmy ftw
With name like “Squabbles”, I knew it was only a matter of time, lol.
Who owns Discuit?
previnder is the owner. I don’t know enough about the platform yet, but it’s yet another centralized network.
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The people who think making an account on Lemmy.world is “too confusing” but think making an account on Reddit or one of these other random sites is somehow simpler really surprise me.
I get that federation is a new weird concept but it’s not like anyone needs to know what it is to sign up somewhere and start posting.
I’m sure it doesn’t help that people are complaining that lemmy.world is a huge instance. That only adds to the confusion.
Proponents of Lemmy: “Just join the instance that has the content you like!”
Also proponents of Lemmy: “OMG WHY IS THERE ONE HUGE INSTANCE”
Funny, during the boycott of Reddit when squabbles was growing, I signed up and created two new communities - one for earbuds and one for vaporents (dry herbal vaporizing).
My earbuds community was quicky approved, but the vaporents group took almost a week before it was approved. It’s almost like the site’s owner (since back then he had no mods or admin team) was hesitant when it came to something possibly clandestine in nature. I guess drugs aren’t cool, but hate speech is?
Wtf is a squabblr
Used to be “Squabbles”. It, Lemmy, and Discuit were three of the major Reddit alternatives thrown around during the Reddit protests.
Sucks. We had lots of fun there when it first started. But I’ve deleted my account now. It’s hilarious to watch Jake try and make an empire. What a loser.
He clearly cares more about his idea of what the site should be than he cares about what the people on the site want.
It’s already falling apart and I haven’t even heard of it. Sounds about right when it comes to chats and social networks these days.
This is why non-federated services are crap.
Exactly! The great thing about Lemmy is that if your instance’s admins start doing stupid stuff you can just go to another instance.
I’ve legit never heard of Squabblr or this… Discuit? What even are these?
Reddit alternatives that didn’t pick up a lot of steam yet. We’ll see if they end up winning out over the fediverse or reddit itself, looks like squabblr won’t if it’s already gone the truth social route
Squabblr was called squabbles until a very recent rebrand. You may’ve known it under its old name instead.
That was this stupid Reddit + Twitter mix, right? Never understood why some people were hyping that platform up so much.
It’s pretty alright. The dev is pretty fast, churned out a majority of the site between a month before reddit killed 3rd party apps and today. Decently responsive to requests and stuff too. But the site just didn’t grow, and the head dev was never okay with giving up sole leadership.
Because they’re confused by the idea that some communities might not be hosted on the server they are logged into. lol
It felt like early reddit while it lasted. Lots of positivity and you started to recognize the usernames. On reddit I was a lurker, but I posted quite a bit on Squabbles. I’m already nostalgic about it lol
Every platform is nice when it’s small and not trying to monetize. The main benefit to decentralization is that anyone can spin up a new small instance, and block any other they feel has gone bad.
Well its nice to be able to have access to the platform from different instance. But its still annoying to have to resign up if the admins piss you off. They need to develop a way to switch instances but keep your profile/history. I had to get off Beehive when they defederated from lemmy.ml and I’d rather keep everything with me.
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Hot damn. I was reading the name and thought first its about squabbles, which I considered to be checking alongside lemmy how it develops.
So I was briefly shocked about this development, then I realised this says squabblr and not squabbles. And then I read your post.
Rollercoaster.
Nope.
On Reddit, just before most of us left, there were a ton of people going “omg lemmy and kbin are too confusing but I like squabbles!”
I signed up and checked in on it here and there, and then this happened. I am also on Discuit, but I’ve been spending most of my time on Lemmy.
I got a weird vibe from Squabbles/Squabblr and this basically confirmed it.
Same. I signed up to Squabbles but any time I visited, which wasn’t often, people seemed to be in the middle of a fight or dealing with the aftermath of trolls. They changed their name and URL and I stayed and at first it seemed fine, but the last time I checked the dev announced it was now suddenly a “free speech platform”; protections for LGBTQ+ people were removed from the TOS; and that all content created by users now belonged to the site to do with as it wished. So I deleted my comments (not many made so that was easy) and account and created one at Discuit. So I give Discuit a few months before that implodes, lol.
I am very grateful for kbin and Lemmy.
Yeah I’ve posted a few memes and replied on Squabblr, but I’ve been way more active on Lemmy. I also have a Discuit account (I created it before Squabblr imploded out of curiosity), but I don’t really have high hopes for that either.
If it wasn’t for Calipso, I wouldn’t have been into Squabblr at all. I think the site is ugly, and with all of the app devs bailing, Squabblr is done for.
Sites that are centralized and therefore have the same potential problems as reddit.
Have they learned nothing from the failure of Voat?
Nah, in the minds of right-wingers that just means they were unfairly censored by the woke trans left jewish globalist elite.
Isn’t Voat that superhero company in the show The Boys ?
That’s Vought. Voat is a reddit clone that eventually got overrun by the worst people and shut down.
lol ok, I questioned reality for a moment there
Have we?
“Let’s copy Twitter and Parler, those are soo successful!”
Man it’s wild how much Twitter just went down in flames. The way you said that really just made me think, a year ago it was a wildly successful social media site with (if I got the dates right) a looming acquisition by a guy who’d shown some mild signals he was an egomaniac alt-right freak. Now it’s basically a smoldering pile of wreckage.
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The sole motive behind transforming a three-month-old online forum into a “Limited Liability Company”, which they did, appears to stem from either intentions of selling it or the reception of funding, consequently relinquishing your authority over it.
Since “free speech” is a dogwhistle, what should a hypothetical place actually interested in free speech as more than just a bigotry shield call what they’re trying to do? Some place interested in allowing discussion of objectionable topics without bigotry?
Yes, whatever, those don’t exist anywhere, you don’t need to respond with that tidbit. Humor the hypothetical here.
Call it “Open Discussion”. Make it clear that the purpose of the site is to allow for discussion from all walks of life and perspectives, but that it has to be actual civil discussion. Outright hatred and bigotry, as well as arguing in bad faith, aren’t helpful or productive in an open discussion, and as such would be shunned and banned. This way, you can still have opinions that aren’t “mainstream”, but you won’t be removed as long as you’re civil and respectful about it. Doing this will attract people who are really interested in hearing other perspectives and sharing their own, instead of alt-right shitheads looking for another place to infest.
This way, you can still have opinions that aren’t “mainstream”, but you won’t be removed as long as you’re civil and respectful about it.
I mean, you sort of identified the problem, but still missed it. It isn’t “mainstream” because we’re taking about marginalized minority groups. It can only be seen as leaning mainstream because LGBTQ+ have a lot of allies that don’t fall under that identity, but it still falls short of actually being mainstream and short of a supporting majority.
Think about the numbers this way; you have LGBTQ+ (or some other minority group), allies, “don’t cares,” “don’t want to knows,” and bigots. We think we know the bigots, those are the haters. What is surprising to most is that the “don’t want to knows” are the biggest faction of bigots, although it is an indirect association.
A common transition for the “don’t want to knows” is saying, “I’m tired of hearing from those Zorb snowflakes only, the other side should be heard as well – free speech. We should have an open discussion.”
This suggestion, while it sounds positive, enables those who want to troll and slander, and they get to do so behind anonymity and with the support of others. For the bigot which openly expresses a hatred for Zorbs and Narfs, they just been given an umbrella of protection under “free speech” to say hurtful things. – Oh, blatant hate speech itself is still considered a violation of TOS? – Good luck trying to moderate an influx of alt accounts which just stoke up the problem by saying, “The Zorbs and Narfs are taking over.” “It might be an unpopular opinion, but non-Zorbs and Narfs need a voice too.” “What Zorbs and Narfs practice is against the teachings of The Great Plunis.” “Plunis said that the Zorbs and Narfs are immoral.” “Zorbs and Narfs are stripping away our Constitutional rights.” “Even taking about Zorbs and Narfs in our schools might trick our kids into supporting or even becoming Narfs themselves. Think of the kids.”
Now telling a bigot that they can’t offend others isn’t hurting them. Giving them a platform where they can be safe to constantly etch away at human decency of marginalized groups is a platform too high, especially when it provides an opportunity to express their vile dislike of a group of people that are somehow different than them with a different perspective of the world.
So how about those Zorbs? From their perspective, anyone might be threatening to them and might want to cause them harm. How can a Narf recognize that someone else is a Zorb, a Narf, an ally, a “don’t care,” a “don’t want to know,” or an outright bigot? As a group of people already in a minority, they need safe spaces to find others they can identify with or who support them, so that they can openly discuss the social challenges they face daily. It isn’t a debate, these are challenges and problems they gave daily. If a social forum which seemed to offer that sort of protected space suddenly changes their TOS in support of “free speech,” and the maintainer of the site declares that they want to encourage discussion and multi-sided debate, that safe space has just been ransacked. Whereas the community they had joined was reserved for peers and allies, that may no longer be the case and those bigots can still be threatening even if they don’t come out and directly say “I hate you.”
There aren’t two sides to an “I am a Zorb,” and “I can’t stand Zorbs” debate. It isn’t the same as one side saying “I like tomatoes,” and another side saying “tomatoes are disgusting,” it is more like the debate about being Pro-Choice vs. Pro-Life… It isn’t as though the Pro-Choice folks are Anti-Life, but the Pro-Life folks are very much Anti-Choice. The sides of the debate can’t even agree about what they are against.
So, as an ally, and someone who really liked squabbles.io a month ago, because it felt like a positive community, I’m disgusted with the changes made this past week. As far as I’m concerned, squabbles.io should have replaced their logo as they did, but they should have replaced Bort with a giant red tomato, to really emphasize how vile and disgusting the site has become.
What is surprising to most is that the “don’t want to knows” are the biggest faction of bigots, although it is an indirect association.
This is Dr. King’s White Moderate all over again.
How about hate free ™ free speech
Or “I can’t believe its not bigotry”
Oh God I Wish it Were Bigotry!, now available in an App Store near you.
A forum? (Online this means a specific type of website architecture though, so idk.)
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You don’t need to label it. The vast majority of the internet will allow anyone acting in good faith to discuss their ideas. Every single time someone complains about being muted/silences/shadow-banned etc you can bet they subscribe to right-wing ideology using dog whistles or other hateful rhetoric. I was never banned anywhere for being Pro-Hillary instead of Pro-Bernie. I was downvoted sure, but that’s everyone elses prerogative. I wasn’t silences because some of my posts were hidden due to it. It’s asinine to claim that, and that’s what these people are whining about.
It’s hard to find a name because nowadays people often use terms like ‘bigotry’, ‘hate speech’ and ‘bad faith’ to refer to anything they don’t like so they can shut down discussions.
Frankly I’m just wondering how we let “free speech” become a dogwhistle. Is water in a bottle a dogwhistle because trump drank one one time on video (with two hands, remember that scandal?) Is coffee a dogwhistle because racist people also drink coffee? Not everything is a “dogwhistle” nor should it be considered as such simply because the words “free speech platform” are used instead of “non-censorious communication service.” Tipper Gore and her Moral Majority have been fighting free speech since Jello Biafra used an H. R. Geiger painting on a record insert she bought her kid, I’ve been complaining about censorship since she got “Parental Advisory” slapped on CDs limiting my ability to sneak music past my overbearing mother as a child (mostly seditious music, anto-religious music, or music by POC, mind you, which is racism), I’ve been bitching about radio beeps and edits since I can remember, free speech has always been a highly regarded value of mine and I’m not going to let those people steal it or their enemies bully me out of supporting it.
It’s because shit-heads love to hide behind objectively good ideals. They want to deflect criticism of what they’re saying or doing into criticism of the ideal. “Oh, you hate free speech!?”
It’s coded language in the right context – “free speech platform” with a wink and a nod.
See also: “Patriot”, “protecting children”, “thugs”, etc.
One can “not hate free speech” while also “hating what you are saying.” These are two separate things, it’s like saying “I like soda, but I don’t like pepsi.” There are other sodas, and there are other “things to say” besides racism. In this instance, tell the hypothetical person you’re talking to who said “oh you hate free speech,” “No, I’m all for free speech, and I’m also for freedom of association. I don’t like what you speak about, so I choose not to associate with you.”
Sure, in this context maybe it is a wink and a nod, but saying “free speech is a dogwhistle” and insinuating every free speech activist since Jello “Nazi Punks Fuck Off” Biafra is actually a secret right winger is patently ridiculous and it is a trend I’ve been noticing recently, and I will exercise my right to free speech to criticize the practice as you are free to ironically exercise your right to free speech by asserting that free speech is actually a dogwhistle.
To your see alsos:
“Patriot” and “Thug” I’ll give you, but “Protecting children” isn’t a “dogwhistle,” it is a manipulation tactic and it is used by all sides everywhere. Every time I hear it for any reason I am immediately suspicious of one’s motives. It is unsurprisingly effective on parents too, but since I’m not one and don’t want kids I have a pretty good immunity to it.
It’s not complicated. Today if someone uses the term “Free Speech” the vast vast majority of the time they are talking about being able to say shitty things without consequences. The remainder are mostly people who misconstrue Free Speech as something that applies to non-governmental entities and finally actual real cases that get settled in court.
what the fuck is squabbler?
Another shitty centralized proprietary social media clone. They already knew they failed so they’re doing this to get that right wing grift.
Here I go deleting an account, sigh, I liked the platform there
The sole dev of Squabblr (Jayclees) really needs to hire someone to do the community management/PR side of things. He is great at programming but he keeps making snap top-down decisions that go against what the userbase wants. And his use of language (i.e., “free speech platform”) sounds like a fkn dog whistle.
All these big names on Squabblr going to Discuit like the devs can’t do the exact same thing over there. I’m tired of migrating platforms. If Lemmy doesn’t work out, then I’m going to just go touch grass for fun.
It sounds like a dog whistle because it is a dog whistle.
If lemmy doesn’t work out I’ll go try and chat randoms on tinder
Reminds me of the scene in Casino when three jackpots go off in 20 mins: “if you didn’t know you were being scammed you’re too fuckin’ dumb to keep this job, if you did know, you were in on it. Either way, YOU’RE OUT! Get out. Go on, let’s go.”
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/watch?v=v0fI_HS79NA
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.
