Mmmm… when I say religion, I mean traditional/common religion. I know religion is a broad term, and its easy to get into the weeds. But for all intents and purposes, Satanism is not devoted to worshipping supernatural, texts, etc. It has tenants, and some other features so as to grant them the role as a religion, as part of the activism. Very different from what you see with Judaism, Islam, Christianity, etc.
Ehhh, I hear what you are saying but it’s coming from a very specific view of religion. Confusionism is considered a religion, as is Taoism, and they are more about tenents than supernatural beliefs (although that may be present).
I think Satanism is a bit confusing to talk about because they do sincerely believe in the tenents, but self freedom is such a strong value that it’s not going to look the same as the big religions that are more about following authority.
I think we’re on the same page ultimately. Just didn’t want anyone to confuse traditional/popular religion with what the Temple seemingly seeks out to do - thats all.
I think we are mostly, but I think that where I may disagree is that the Temple’s political aims are not it’s primary reason for existence. They’re most well known for their political strategies because … their whole strategy is to gather attention, but there are people who are involved who are not involved in the activism. I think this is something that is not obvious from TST’s online presence, but something I have observed in local community (San Francisco - which I admit may be a huge outlier given SF’s history with LeVeyan Satanism).
Not sure, I’m not involved, just have friends who are! They talked about the national activism but never talked about being involved with that, only rituals, so I think for them it’s about having a space to participate in ritual activities that are ideologically aligned as they are very much atheists.
Same here - however I will note that rituals do not have to be in a congregation, lots of people do solo ritual and practice as well. A lot of these practices really could fit under the broader Pagan umbrella.
For the Satanic Temple, however, these are largely just symbolic and aren’t supernatural or anything else like that really (from what I’ve learned from friends, coworkers, etc)
Satanists don’t even believe in satan (uuuusually, LaVeyans are atheistic but thesistics literally believe, so there’s some nuance there - as is for most religions)
Yes, there are many rituals … the ritual of graduation ceremonies comes to mind as one that is secular, and broadly recognized … also weddings. These are separate from the legal and institutional paperwork that formalizes getting a degree or marriage, but still important for individuals and their communities.
I was not trying to imply that rituals are always supernatural, or that the Satanic Temple rituals are. It is good you pointed that out because it’s common people don’t really understand what rituals are, especially when you’re talking about paganism or Satanism, where “ritual” can be used in this nefarious, chic-tract way 🙃
That doesn’t make them less of rituals, same with the Satanic Temple. What is interesting about the Satanic Temple is that they very explicitly address the topic of rituals. It’s like, yes people need rituals, but a lot of the time it’s tied to the belief in a supernatural power. But the embodiment of a belief or will or intent or whatever through the form of ritual can be psychologically extremely powerful, and they explicitly name that that’s what they are doing.
Mmmm… when I say religion, I mean traditional/common religion. I know religion is a broad term, and its easy to get into the weeds. But for all intents and purposes, Satanism is not devoted to worshipping supernatural, texts, etc. It has tenants, and some other features so as to grant them the role as a religion, as part of the activism. Very different from what you see with Judaism, Islam, Christianity, etc.
Ehhh, I hear what you are saying but it’s coming from a very specific view of religion. Confusionism is considered a religion, as is Taoism, and they are more about tenents than supernatural beliefs (although that may be present).
I think Satanism is a bit confusing to talk about because they do sincerely believe in the tenents, but self freedom is such a strong value that it’s not going to look the same as the big religions that are more about following authority.
I think we’re on the same page ultimately. Just didn’t want anyone to confuse traditional/popular religion with what the Temple seemingly seeks out to do - thats all.
I think we are mostly, but I think that where I may disagree is that the Temple’s political aims are not it’s primary reason for existence. They’re most well known for their political strategies because … their whole strategy is to gather attention, but there are people who are involved who are not involved in the activism. I think this is something that is not obvious from TST’s online presence, but something I have observed in local community (San Francisco - which I admit may be a huge outlier given SF’s history with LeVeyan Satanism).
Right, there are chapters and one chapter may differ slightly from another’s
What do you believe your chapters primary reason for existence is? Do they lean more heavily on the religious/ideological side?
Not sure, I’m not involved, just have friends who are! They talked about the national activism but never talked about being involved with that, only rituals, so I think for them it’s about having a space to participate in ritual activities that are ideologically aligned as they are very much atheists.
Same here - however I will note that rituals do not have to be in a congregation, lots of people do solo ritual and practice as well. A lot of these practices really could fit under the broader Pagan umbrella.
For the Satanic Temple, however, these are largely just symbolic and aren’t supernatural or anything else like that really (from what I’ve learned from friends, coworkers, etc)
Satanists don’t even believe in satan (uuuusually, LaVeyans are atheistic but thesistics literally believe, so there’s some nuance there - as is for most religions)
Yes, there are many rituals … the ritual of graduation ceremonies comes to mind as one that is secular, and broadly recognized … also weddings. These are separate from the legal and institutional paperwork that formalizes getting a degree or marriage, but still important for individuals and their communities.
I was not trying to imply that rituals are always supernatural, or that the Satanic Temple rituals are. It is good you pointed that out because it’s common people don’t really understand what rituals are, especially when you’re talking about paganism or Satanism, where “ritual” can be used in this nefarious, chic-tract way 🙃
That doesn’t make them less of rituals, same with the Satanic Temple. What is interesting about the Satanic Temple is that they very explicitly address the topic of rituals. It’s like, yes people need rituals, but a lot of the time it’s tied to the belief in a supernatural power. But the embodiment of a belief or will or intent or whatever through the form of ritual can be psychologically extremely powerful, and they explicitly name that that’s what they are doing.
Couldn’t agree more - humans are very much so ritualistic beings. I find that most people just white-wash the word ritual with “routine” instead.
Thanks satanic panic!