Fedi users are also about a bajillion times less likely to migrate to a Meta product than the other way around. There was the opportunity to catch some people and help grow the fediverse, but between this and the mastodon HOA (pushes glasses umm excuse me you forgot to put a CW warning on your post about flowers a flower killed my dog when I was five and this is very problematic trauma you’re causing and your alt-text should be at least 3 paragraphs and include a bibliography) it’s likely the fediverse just did what it needed to ensure it stays a niche for like 3 audiences and that more people are stuck with the corpos if they want content that’s not about being a communist or using linux.
Anyway, this is a step for Meta to avoid regulatory scrutiny. Everyone keeps saying how Meta is going to destroy the fedi (don’t worry, we’ll take care of it for them) but no one is saying how. For example, they cut us off? So what? We’re cut off right now.
If Threads, which has the biggest userbase of any instance, is allowed to connect with Lemmy, their communities will naturally become the most trafficked (embrace).
Over time, the Lemmy userbase will largely move everything to the communities with the most activity. Facebook could also add its own proprietary features that Lemmy users wouldn’t be able to see or use without the Lemmy devs somehow found ways to enable compatibility (extend).
Then, after a while, Facebook could simply say, “Eh, ActivityPub isn’t worth it,” and turn it off, leaving us without most of the communities we’ve become accustomed to and without most of the users we’ve come to know through those communities (extinguish).
This is known as “Embrace, Extend, Extinguish”.
Embrace a competing product and enable compatibility with the product. This may seem like some sort of goodwill gesture, but it’s not. Companies are in it to make a profit, and any users not using their product is profit lost.
Extend the capabilities of your own product beyond that of your competitor’s product, creating compatibility issues. Some existing users may jump ship to the “better” product because of this, and new users will be pressed to use the “better” product because of the compatibility issues.
Extinguish the competition by disabling compatibility with your competitor’s product after they’ve lost users and stopped growing since you offer a better product with more features.
By using this method, you may successfully kill any potential competitor before they become a problem, nipping its growth in the bud.
No, “embrace, extend, extinguish” specifically involves some sort of interoperability between a larger organization (Facebook) and a smaller one (Lemmy).
Indeed that laugh since 90% of those users are likely bots and the 10% remaining are people that will only overrun this platform with mediocre recycled memes disengaging existing lemmy users.
Unless the benefit would be extremely big, Facebook users are just going to dilute existing lemmy content instead of add to it.
I dislike Facebook as much as anyone else, but open is open. Once we start with “open to everyone, except you you and you”, it can’t be called open anymore.
People say that? How odd, that seems like a totally different world. I don’t agree with that sentiment! One is a general purpose communications protocol, the other is a community. As with any community, one can pick and choose who they fraternize with.
The problem with that is, if they join, they will have the most active communities. Everyone will naturally want to use those instead of the less active ones in other communities.
So, in that case, defederation may end up harming the userbase. After that, they’d basically have to rebuild the communities that got abandoned for the larger ones on Threads. Some users may even jump ship to Threads to continue using the communities they’ve become accustomed to.
So the question is: defederate and potentially harm your instance, possibly even irreparably, or stay federated and continue allowing Facebook to do what it wants?
We build this entire reddit alternative without interconnectivity with reddit, why couldn’t we do that again if threads decides to do that. People will be familiar with how lemmy works and there will be no ads here, so I don’t completely see a problem. Plus the format of lemmy is completely different from threads right?
We build this entire reddit alternative without interconnectivity with reddit, why couldn’t we do that again if threads decides to do that.
We could, but we’d basically have to start over again. It wouldn’t be quite from scratch, but it’d be pretty close.
Plus the format of lemmy is completely different from threads right?
It depends on how Facebook implements ActivityPub. For comparison, Mastodon and Lemmy both use ActivityPub. Mastodon users can actually search for and comment on Lemmy posts (each Lemmy post and comment appears as a new Mastodon post), but, due to Mastodon having a specific option in ActivityPub turned off (I don’t remember which one), the reverse is not true.
Gosh this giant group of White Nationalists wants to come to my house for my birthday, well wow golly gee every opinion is a rich and valuable thing better let them in
Ehm… Shouldn’t Fediverse be… Open?
Meta is a company that is gonna join us in being open and when they get enough users to have their platform running organically they cut us off.
So Threads, which is has 140+ million users and has consistently grown since launch without federation is worried about “getting enough users” from the fediverse, which has less than 10 million?
Fedi users are also about a bajillion times less likely to migrate to a Meta product than the other way around. There was the opportunity to catch some people and help grow the fediverse, but between this and the mastodon HOA (pushes glasses umm excuse me you forgot to put a CW warning on your post about flowers a flower killed my dog when I was five and this is very problematic trauma you’re causing and your alt-text should be at least 3 paragraphs and include a bibliography) it’s likely the fediverse just did what it needed to ensure it stays a niche for like 3 audiences and that more people are stuck with the corpos if they want content that’s not about being a communist or using linux.
Anyway, this is a step for Meta to avoid regulatory scrutiny. Everyone keeps saying how Meta is going to destroy the fedi (don’t worry, we’ll take care of it for them) but no one is saying how. For example, they cut us off? So what? We’re cut off right now.
If Threads, which has the biggest userbase of any instance, is allowed to connect with Lemmy, their communities will naturally become the most trafficked (embrace).
Over time, the Lemmy userbase will largely move everything to the communities with the most activity. Facebook could also add its own proprietary features that Lemmy users wouldn’t be able to see or use without the Lemmy devs somehow found ways to enable compatibility (extend).
Then, after a while, Facebook could simply say, “Eh, ActivityPub isn’t worth it,” and turn it off, leaving us without most of the communities we’ve become accustomed to and without most of the users we’ve come to know through those communities (extinguish).
This is known as “Embrace, Extend, Extinguish”.
Embrace a competing product and enable compatibility with the product. This may seem like some sort of goodwill gesture, but it’s not. Companies are in it to make a profit, and any users not using their product is profit lost.
Extend the capabilities of your own product beyond that of your competitor’s product, creating compatibility issues. Some existing users may jump ship to the “better” product because of this, and new users will be pressed to use the “better” product because of the compatibility issues.
Extinguish the competition by disabling compatibility with your competitor’s product after they’ve lost users and stopped growing since you offer a better product with more features.
By using this method, you may successfully kill any potential competitor before they become a problem, nipping its growth in the bud.
You can find more information and examples on the the Wikipedia article about this method: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish
Aren’t they doing this already without federating?
No, “embrace, extend, extinguish” specifically involves some sort of interoperability between a larger organization (Facebook) and a smaller one (Lemmy).
Considering they already have like 10x the users than the fediverse already…
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Considering they already have like 100x the users than the fediverse already…
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Indeed that laugh since 90% of those users are likely bots and the 10% remaining are people that will only overrun this platform with mediocre recycled memes disengaging existing lemmy users.
Unless the benefit would be extremely big, Facebook users are just going to dilute existing lemmy content instead of add to it.
Okay? How would that effect us
I dislike Facebook as much as anyone else, but open is open. Once we start with “open to everyone, except you you and you”, it can’t be called open anymore.
Federated doesn’t mean open.
No, but that was the whole marketing pitch for it. Now everyone is fine with censoring and rules as long as it aligns with their own beliefs.
That’s the point of federation! Choosing who you want in your community.
That’s fair, but then stop using the “federation is like email” propaganda.
People say that? How odd, that seems like a totally different world. I don’t agree with that sentiment! One is a general purpose communications protocol, the other is a community. As with any community, one can pick and choose who they fraternize with.
Won’t someone please think of the multi billion dollar corporations?! Oh the corpomanity!
Corporations aren’t people.
It’s neat how your point fizzles into nothing when we remember this basic tenet of life.
If you want Facebook controlling the fediverse with their overwhelming bulk of users.
How would they control it? If they do anything bad we can just defederate, right?
The problem with that is, if they join, they will have the most active communities. Everyone will naturally want to use those instead of the less active ones in other communities.
So, in that case, defederation may end up harming the userbase. After that, they’d basically have to rebuild the communities that got abandoned for the larger ones on Threads. Some users may even jump ship to Threads to continue using the communities they’ve become accustomed to.
So the question is: defederate and potentially harm your instance, possibly even irreparably, or stay federated and continue allowing Facebook to do what it wants?
We build this entire reddit alternative without interconnectivity with reddit, why couldn’t we do that again if threads decides to do that. People will be familiar with how lemmy works and there will be no ads here, so I don’t completely see a problem. Plus the format of lemmy is completely different from threads right?
We could, but we’d basically have to start over again. It wouldn’t be quite from scratch, but it’d be pretty close.
It depends on how Facebook implements ActivityPub. For comparison, Mastodon and Lemmy both use ActivityPub. Mastodon users can actually search for and comment on Lemmy posts (each Lemmy post and comment appears as a new Mastodon post), but, due to Mastodon having a specific option in ActivityPub turned off (I don’t remember which one), the reverse is not true.
Gosh this giant group of White Nationalists wants to come to my house for my birthday, well wow golly gee every opinion is a rich and valuable thing better let them in
Is threads that bad?
Not necessarily threads, but to remain wide open isn’t necessarily the best policy. Or so I assume this to be the point they were making.
No. This argument is stupid
deleted by creator
Can individual users block instances?
deleted by creator
We don’t need to tolerate nasty megacorporations.
relevant xkcd my friend ;) The fediverse is still open.
Is threads racist? Or just run by a big company?
Run by Facebook.
Not if they disagree with me!
“WON’T SOMEONE THINK OF THE BIG MULTI-BILLION DOLLAR COMPANIES RIGHT TO STEAL OUR DATA AND INFILTRATE OUR SPACES TO DESTROY COMPETITION!?”