I’m not sure what motivates you to so generously offer your various dyadic tokens of knowledge on this subject without qualification while ignoring my larger point, but will assume in good faith that your thirst for knowledge rivals that of your devotion to The Rules.
First, a question: what are conventions if not agreed upon rules? Second, here is a history of how we actually came to agree upon the aforementioned rules which you may find interesting:
Smartman Apps is a fraud who thinks that 2(8)2 is 256… sometimes. And that reverse Polish notation requires parentheses. They constantly sneer about “Maths textbooks” and then ignore two hundred years of specific counterexamples. I’m not joking; I went through the Archive.org PDFs they claim to own physically, from 1809 to 2023, and everything with an answer key says they’re full of shit. Guess what impact that effort has had.
I didn’t realize he’s been arguing aggressively with people in the comments of meme communities for over a week straight without breaks. This is why therapy exists.
I ran into them last year, where they did exactly the same bullshit. This is all they do. This, and post Microsoft .NET articles nobody touches. The BlueSky account they link to (for long threads picking fights with calculators, textbooks, and Wolfram fucking Alpha over basic algebra) makes clear their “company” is just them and their emoji fursona. It proudly features an empty website that promises a nonspecific app, coming 2024.
They might be fifteen years old. It would explain the many times calling this ‘math for children’ sees them sneer ‘for teenagers!’ because year seven is 12-13. Like, c’mon. Anyone with a doctorate sees college freshmen as children.
In the thread from last month they posted nearly two hundred shitty comments harassing a dozen people, all of whom tried politely explaining how they’re overreaching, mistaken, not as smart as they think they are, ineffectual, just plain rude, et very cetera. To no avail. Mods won’t do shit. Admins won’t do shit. So this constant behavior needs to become a reputation.
I’m a Maths teacher with a Masters - thanks for asking - how about you?
while ignoring my larger point
You mean your invalid point, that I debunked?
what are conventions if not agreed upon rules?
Conventions are optional, rules aren’t.
here is a history of how we actually came to agree upon the aforementioned rules which you may find interesting
He’s well-known to be wrong about his “history”, and if you read through the comments you’ll find plenty of people telling him that, including references. Cajori wrote the definitive books about the history of Maths (notation). They’re available for free on the Internet Archive - no need to believe some random crank and his blog.
By qualification I meant explanation. My doctorate is irrelevant to the truth.
Since you asked, my larger point was about the unhelpful nature of this content, which makes students of math feel inordinately inferior or superior hinged entirely on a single point of familiarity. I don’t handle early math education, but many of my students arrive with baggage from it that hinders their progress, leading me to suspect that early math education sometimes discourages students unnecessarily. In particular, these gotcha-style math memes IMO deepen students’ belief that they’re just bad at math. Hence my dislike of them.
Re: Dave Peterson, I’ll need to read more about this debate regarding the history of notation and I’ll search for the “proven rules” you mentioned (proofs mean something very specific to me and I can’t yet imagine what that looks like WRT order of operations).
If what riled you up was my use of the word “conventions” I can use another, but note that conventions aren’t necessarily “optional” when being understood is essential. Where one places a comma in writing can radically change the meaning of a sentence, for example. My greater point however has nothing to do with that. Here I am only concerned about the next generation of maths student and how viral content like this can discourage them unnecessarily.
It sure is. I’ve seen a PhD who didn’t read the only textbook he had referenced in his thesis, which proved his idea that teachers were doing it wrong and he wasn’t, was wrong. 😂 Should’ve listened to the people who teach it (or actually read the textbook he referenced 🙄 ).
which makes students of math feel inordinately inferior
They don’t. All students get this correct. It’s only adults who have forgotten the rules that get it wrong.
these gotcha-style math memes IMO deepen students’ belief that they’re just bad at math
Nope. Students never get these wrong.
proofs mean something very specific to me and I can’t yet imagine what that looks like WRT order of operations
All you have to do is see which way gives wrong answers for 2+3x4 and you’ve proven which ways don’t work 😂
note that conventions aren’t necessarily “optional”
Yes they are.
when being understood is essential
You don’t understand how to do 2+3x4-5 without knowing which conventions people use for the order of the plus and minus?
Here I am only concerned about the next generation of maths student and how viral content like this can discourage them unnecessarily
Dear Mr Rules,
I’m not sure what motivates you to so generously offer your various dyadic tokens of knowledge on this subject without qualification while ignoring my larger point, but will assume in good faith that your thirst for knowledge rivals that of your devotion to The Rules.
First, a question: what are conventions if not agreed upon rules? Second, here is a history of how we actually came to agree upon the aforementioned rules which you may find interesting:
https://www.themathdoctors.org/order-of-operations-historical-caveats/
Happy ruling to you.
Smartman Apps is a fraud who thinks that 2(8)2 is 256… sometimes. And that reverse Polish notation requires parentheses. They constantly sneer about “Maths textbooks” and then ignore two hundred years of specific counterexamples. I’m not joking; I went through the Archive.org PDFs they claim to own physically, from 1809 to 2023, and everything with an answer key says they’re full of shit. Guess what impact that effort has had.
I didn’t realize he’s been arguing aggressively with people in the comments of meme communities for over a week straight without breaks. This is why therapy exists.
I ran into them last year, where they did exactly the same bullshit. This is all they do. This, and post Microsoft .NET articles nobody touches. The BlueSky account they link to (for long threads picking fights with calculators, textbooks, and Wolfram fucking Alpha over basic algebra) makes clear their “company” is just them and their emoji fursona. It proudly features an empty website that promises a nonspecific app, coming 2024.
They might be fifteen years old. It would explain the many times calling this ‘math for children’ sees them sneer ‘for teenagers!’ because year seven is 12-13. Like, c’mon. Anyone with a doctorate sees college freshmen as children.
In the thread from last month they posted nearly two hundred shitty comments harassing a dozen people, all of whom tried politely explaining how they’re overreaching, mistaken, not as smart as they think they are, ineffectual, just plain rude, et very cetera. To no avail. Mods won’t do shit. Admins won’t do shit. So this constant behavior needs to become a reputation.
I’m a Maths teacher with a Masters - thanks for asking - how about you?
You mean your invalid point, that I debunked?
Conventions are optional, rules aren’t.
He’s well-known to be wrong about his “history”, and if you read through the comments you’ll find plenty of people telling him that, including references. Cajori wrote the definitive books about the history of Maths (notation). They’re available for free on the Internet Archive - no need to believe some random crank and his blog.
Dear colleague,
By qualification I meant explanation. My doctorate is irrelevant to the truth.
Since you asked, my larger point was about the unhelpful nature of this content, which makes students of math feel inordinately inferior or superior hinged entirely on a single point of familiarity. I don’t handle early math education, but many of my students arrive with baggage from it that hinders their progress, leading me to suspect that early math education sometimes discourages students unnecessarily. In particular, these gotcha-style math memes IMO deepen students’ belief that they’re just bad at math. Hence my dislike of them.
Re: Dave Peterson, I’ll need to read more about this debate regarding the history of notation and I’ll search for the “proven rules” you mentioned (proofs mean something very specific to me and I can’t yet imagine what that looks like WRT order of operations).
If what riled you up was my use of the word “conventions” I can use another, but note that conventions aren’t necessarily “optional” when being understood is essential. Where one places a comma in writing can radically change the meaning of a sentence, for example. My greater point however has nothing to do with that. Here I am only concerned about the next generation of maths student and how viral content like this can discourage them unnecessarily.
It sure is. I’ve seen a PhD who didn’t read the only textbook he had referenced in his thesis, which proved his idea that teachers were doing it wrong and he wasn’t, was wrong. 😂 Should’ve listened to the people who teach it (or actually read the textbook he referenced 🙄 ).
They don’t. All students get this correct. It’s only adults who have forgotten the rules that get it wrong.
Nope. Students never get these wrong.
All you have to do is see which way gives wrong answers for 2+3x4 and you’ve proven which ways don’t work 😂
Yes they are.
You don’t understand how to do 2+3x4-5 without knowing which conventions people use for the order of the plus and minus?
It doesn’t. None of them get it wrong. 🙄