- cross-posted to:
- hackernews@derp.foo
- cross-posted to:
- hackernews@derp.foo
Tesla Cybertruck Owners Who Drove 10,000 Miles Say Range Is 164 To 206 Miles::Also, the charging speeds are below par, but on the flip side, the sound system is awesome and the car is “a dream to drive.”
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Sigh. Not this again. Look, I personally really don’t like the Cybertruck. I think it’s ugly and pointless. But as someone who likes EVs in general I have to call out the usual “the range is so bad lol” BS.
The two drivers who are using the EV said that the maximum range with a full battery was 206 miles and 164 miles with an 80% state of charge.
The range you get when not fully charging the battery is meaningless. It’s like partially fueling an ICE and complaining it doesn’t deliver the maximum range. Good for a clickbait headline though.
That test was done at a relatively constant speed of 70 miles per hour while the outside temperature was about 45 degrees. The truck was driven fairly aggressively most of the time
Driving aggressively, at high speed, in relatively cold weather is the perfect trifecta to make any EV underdeliver in range. Those are real downsides of EVs (and weather and speed are factors with ICE cars, just more so for EVs) but it’s nothing new or specific to this vehicle. And it is not the scenario the EPA uses to come up with range numbers. Perhaps they should, but they don’t.
80% is a full standard charge. You only actually full charge immediately before a road trip, because it wears the battery faster to charge to 100%, and wears even more of you hold the charge before using it.
Do for someone charging their car over night for normal operations, 80% is a functionally full charge.
While that is true, it’s not fair to say “see they lied! In completely different circumstances you only get a fraction of the range!” Even for ICE vehicles they use ideal conditions to measure their MPG/range even though most people aren’t driving in ideal conditions.
Have you not noticed the same exact comments being made about ICE vehicles, particularly when their mileage estimates are highly advertised?
You all seem to act like this is particularly unfair to Tesla, when it’s literally the same exact discussion we’ve had for decades.
Well, no. I don’t ever recall a comparable stream of articles and discussion pointing out that, say, the new Jaguar XF has really poor fuel economy in suboptimal conditions. I agree it’s the same thing, so why is this news?
Maybe because the real world conditions is being reported by owners at roughly 50% of Teslas advertised range. When for ICE, real vs advertised is typically around 80%.
Also, there has been reasonable skepticism on the range of heavier EVs, like trucks. And Tesla being the self made premium brand, and the Tesla truck being such a weird style, is in a spotlight of its own making.
Maybe because the real world conditions is being reported by owners at roughly 50% of Teslas advertised range. When for ICE, real vs advertised is typically around 80%.
Sure if that were really the case in general it would be notable. However I’m not sure it’s true. Independent tests with data done by journalists, or various countries, do not reproduce this 50% number. At worst the range was 10-20% off which is comparable to ICEs. At least for Tesla’s previous vehicles. We’ll see if the Cybertruck is different.
Good point with your second paragraph though, yeah it does draw a lot of negative attention. It’s just the unsourced / poor methodology EV range testing which frequently shows which up annoys me…
It’s a truck that’s meant to tow and haul loads. Using it for that purpose is a much larger drain on the battery than aggressive driving, and significantly reduces its useful range. If it’s getting these numbers just being driven, you can expect a sub-100 mile range per charge when towing. Imagine having to stop to recharge for 30+ minutes for every hour and half of towing you do. Woof.
t’s a truck that’s meant to tow and haul loads.
A pickup truck towing and hauling loads? What a bizarre idea. I’m pretty sure it’s only meant to go to the office, and maybe to the maul on weekends, once in a while.
If they marketed it as such, but they heavily marketed it as capable as, if not better, at doing truck things than other trucks. And to be fair, most of us knew it was bullshit, but it’s impressive how absolutely wrong they were. I mean, Elon said it’d tow a Porsche 911 faster in the quarter than the 911 could run the 1/4 mile itself, and they released a video to prove it…except keen eyed folks quickly noticed that the “finish line” they show is actually the 1/8th mile marker on that drag strip, and the 911 is clearly about to pass the CT at that point. Engineering Explained on YT made a great video detailing how it couldn’t beat even the slowest modern 911.
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Now that is a good point. It’s been repeatedly shown how towing drains EV batteries. Then again I’m not sure most buyers of EV trucks plan actually use it as a useful truck… Another reason why I don’t like this whole segment.
I use my F-150 fairly often to haul and tow. If I didn’t need to tow ~5000lbs I’d have just kept my old 97 Tacoma. I was all in on getting a Lightning a few months ago, especially with $15,000 in rebates and tax credits. Then I did the math and realized going from my brother’s shop to my place while towing 5000lbs means I’d have to stop and charge for 30 minutes SIX times on that trip. And sadly, it seems that’s as good as it gets for EV trucks right now. I’m 100% onboard with an EV truck, especially a Lightning with the ability to use it as a generator for your home in an outage, but towing/hauling range has to improve astronomically before they’re practical.
I feel like the towing issues won’t be easily resolved without aerodynamic towing covers. That’s really what’s hurting the range when towing in an EV. Small differences in efficiency make a much bigger impact with EVs. Like let’s say an EV needs 100 watts to maintain speed. Adding 100 watts of aerodynamic drag doubles the energy drain. But since ICEs are less efficient overall, they would say require 500 watts to maintain speed. The extra 100 watts from towing makes less of a difference.
I predict there will be aerodynamic fairings for towing in the future as more EVs hit the road.
Supposedly the Silverado EV does have astronomically better towing range, but GM seems to be slow-rolling that one.
The great news is we have Zac (JerryRigEverything) to test exactly that:
Towing at around its maximum rating in the cold, the range was indeed below 100 miles.
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According to my Tesla driving neighbor most people do not charge their Tesla to 100% in order to extend the battery lifespan. I don’t understand it but apparently Tesla recommends it.
Yeah Lithium batteries stay healthy for much longer if you keep them roughly between 20%-80% charge. Many laptops and phones now use similar management strategies to avoid wearing out the battery.
That’s common for lots of batteries. My laptop has a setting to not charge between 50-70% because it lives on a dock and doesn’t need max life in travel. Batteries are stored between 40 and 80% usually. So it makes sense that a car with the same battery chemistry recommends the same thing. It’s only different in regards to a car being important in an emergency, but realistically, an emergency is unlikely to be both sudden and require long distance driving. So 100 miles of range is probably as good as 400 in common usage.
Your phone does the same thing just without communicating it. Samsung phones let you change the percentage of the battery is “100%” charged.
As mentioned, lithium batteries are happiest charged around 20-80%. No shame in going higher if you need it, but typical day to day I drive less than 50 miles in a day. If I’m using 20% of my battery capacity, I don’t care if that means I go from 100% down to 80% or 80% down to 60%. I’ll plug it in at the end of the day and charge back up to whatever I want by the next morning.
Put another way, how many times have you woken up thinking you need to stop at a gas station because you only have 3/4 of a tank?
Put another way, how many times have you woken up thinking you need to stop at a gas station because you only have 3/4 of a tank?
I mean, fairly often. But I imagine for neurotypical people it might be way less.😂
70 is aggressive? In California ppl will be passing you on both sides at that speed.
The word aggressive is from the article, so I don’t know. Anyways driving 70mph consistently is going to deliver you less than the advertised range with EVs, which I believe is a blend of driving types not just constant highway speed. Consider while ICE cars have awful efficiency in city driving (stop/start) so highway driving is preferred, with EVs it’s actually the other way around thanks to fewer mechanical losses and battery regen braking.
Aggressive doesn’t mean fast. It means more abrupt changes, more acceleration/deceleration
For example, with the frigid weather I notice I use a lot of brake when regen isn’t effective
I read aggressive as in accelerating aggressively. Possibly to get around people?
It’s below the recommended average on German roads (stands at 130kph / ~81mph).
Tesla apologist
Why does it look like a car from a PS1 game?
StarFox on the SNES has more polygons than that.
Because we live in the version of reality where the worst idea is the best idea and we don’t actually care about anyone’s wellbeing and safety. The car is shaped the way it is to inflict the most fatalities on pedestrians.
And the us traffic safety board is refusing to test it’s crash rating because they don’t have to. It’s so fishy that this is a new stupid design and they don’t want to test it. Either Elon paid them off or they refuse to give or sell one to test. I have a feeling it would get a 2 out of 5 stars.
I think the artist behind Mad Max might have some ideas worth exploring. When in doubt, add more spikes.
Because Musk wanted to make a vehicle out of stainless steel and straight panels are the easiest/cheapest to form.
Straight panels are much harder to make as every bend and minor imperfection show up. https://www.cnbc.com/2023/12/13/why-the-cybertruck-is-so-hard-to-manufacture.html
Why do you think cars are never made with straight panels?
Straight stainless is easier.
I mean, if you read the article that’s just not accurate. And musk has said as much many times over.
If it was really that thick plate it would be, but making any modern vehicle (that’s not meant for military use in hostile territory) out of thick plate is fucking stupid. And keeping thin stainless flat is really tricky, it wants to have at least a bit of curve to stay rigid. It asoc doesn’t like consistent forming, which is why nobody since Delorean has bothered.
Both for weight, and economy, but also for accident safety—good luck of you’re not also in an armored car, and occupant safety, since the crumble zones are greatly reduced and going to transfer way more energy into your soft tissues and internal organs.
But you can throw a rubber baseball at it just fine at least.
I mostly see the N64 Rush 2049 car called Venom I think. It was mostly a Lamborghini Diablo. Maybe it just stood out in the sea of rounded futuristic cars.
Side note, I think the one called Euro LX was really just the BMW 6-series concept from the Bengal era. Funny how it landed in a mix of futurism that included a rocket car
Are you genuinely asking? Because I thought all these jokes were made when it was first unveiled 5 years ago?
Lemmy is 99% karmabots at this point
Is karma tracked on Lemmy?
Not after 0.19
karma is useless in Lemmy, so it would be just idiotic to do such a thing
And why, after we ridiculed this thing 10 years ago for being a low-poly abomination and then it disappeared from view for two decades, did they suddenly decide to release the thing with apparently zero changes in 2023?
This is a terrible, ridiculed, 10 year old atrocity. How is it being taken seriously? I feel like I’m on crazy pills.
e: number typos
I don’t disagree, except it was 4 years ago that they unveiled the abomination.
It was definitely previewed at least ten years ago. In my old job as UX designer, we were laughing at it around the office, and I haven’t worked there for 12 years. It may have been a limited preview in design circles, not a public announcement, but the design hasn’t changed.
Hmmm, design and everything? That event with the broken windows was a lot last than that, and that’s when it really turned it into a meme
At that point, it was a primarily visual design with some technical specs (obviously aspirational, there was no prototype yet).
The Lara Crofts boobs comparison is still the most accurate IMO.
It is.
263 - 331 kilometers for the rest of the world
Fun fact: the conversion factor from mi to km is ≈ ln(5).
FFS, everyone knows a mile is 1.6 kilometers. You’re just insulting the intelligence of everyone reading this to make some sort of dig against the yanks.
Not everyone (me among them) knows or is willing/able to do the math in their heads
man, if you can’t figure out roughly 60 percent more, well…
Relax.
Learn to count not on your fingers.
Learn to not be a pompous dick, Some people haven’t had their morning coffee and appreciate not having to do the math.
“Imma European and that means I can deny I’m being passive aggressive about my lack of basic mathematic skills because 10 is more logical despite basic logic denying that retarded thought”
Yawn
Let’s dial the aggression back. We don’t have to be rude to each other.
Truly.
I don’t.
No not everyone knows.
Yeah i guess there are some absolute idiots about. “For that that don’t know, 2 plus 2 is 4”
It might be news to you but people from counties that use metric really don’t care what a mile is.
Yeah…it would be news that everyone is the ignorant fuck they pretend to be online IRL.
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Not everyone! I’m one of those. From time to time some American reminds me but my brain filters out as a completely useless information and I forget it.
Quick check what you know "And what’s the difference exactly? As a Czech dating an Ukrainian woman, let me tell you that the difference is that “European” women are spoiled and lazy. My girlfriend is working two jobs (14 to 16 hours a day), she’s facing a lot of discrimination and racism and yet she’s always in a good mood. Everyone is her community is like that.
Maybe you are from a non-Slavic country? To you they might seem different because you don’t understand/know? They are listening to the same music as you, they are watching the same shows on Netflix as you. Their stuff is arguably better than “ours” cough Lions on the jeep cough. Learn the language and you’ll see. For a nation that went through so many tragedies I don’t think it’s fair to look down upon them. Even if they primarily want a protection. So what? Why should you have it and they don’t?" yeah get fucked
Get fucked for what? That I’m from the EU? That I send donations to the country at war? That I have a gf?
Bigoted prick
But this is just him making it convenient to not even have to convert. The things that rile people up…
Pattern recognition is a thing
I’m starting to recognize a pattern here. You’re a pompous dick.
“Can do basic math”
No need for this.
You know what? There really is. I’ve had it with this horseshit.
My Chevy Bolt gets more range at a fraction of the cost and I love it. I charge it at work for free and it has been an extremely reliable car for a couple years now.
I mean yes but not really comparable to what’s supposed to be a pick up truck. It’s no different than saying your Prius is more efficient than an F150 lol
You can’t even fit a bicycle in a cyber truck. You’re not gonna be hauling anything.
F150s and the like often have a bigger tank to counteract the lower efficiency. The headline at least is about range, which is made of a combination of battery capacity and efficiency.
Yeah, but an F150 is useful. The Tesla Truck isn’t.
My electric bike gets more range than a Chevy Bolt and I love it. I charge it at work for free and it has been an extremely reliable bike for a couple years now.
i had a geo metro that had greater range.
so confusing why this exists.
Ok, now try to do the things that trucks are typically used for in your geo metro. Towing, transporting construction tools and materials, etc.
I’m not defending Elon because I think the truck looks dumb and is over priced, but you gotta compare apples to apples.
i had a hitch on my 96 metro. so, yeah. and a geo metro totin a tiny trailer looks a hell of a lot less silly than that silver monstrosity
i do see your point. but i think it misses main the issue here; that this isnt a good vehicle let a lone truck.
You’re still not comparing apples to apples. The people who actually need something like this (not this specifically because we both agree it’s bad) would not be using it to tow just a small trailer. I agree the cyber truck is bad but the comparison still makes no sense.
If you believe them, Tesla says the cyber truck can have a 2500lb payload and tow 11000 lbs. That’s a whole different ballgame than your geo metro which officially doesn’t even have a towing capacity.
Some people actually use trucks for their intended purposes instead of a status symbol.
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Ego
What’s the advertised range?
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And then the article says homeboy basically floored it everywhere… okay
That’s favorable isn’t it? Starting and stopping at low speeds would drain power faster I think?
“A slow build-up to acceleration coupled with a consistent rate will help your car drive longer on a single charge.”
I want an EV offroader so bad, but I currently live in Australia. Some of my trips I’m packing 130L of fuel and this is after getting to the last planned station before hitting the wild. That can get consumed over as little as 200km depending on conditions the car has to tackle.
<200 miles of aggressive highway driving is a death sentence for a 4×4 in Australia. Outside of recreational trips near cities or big towns, mileage like this would put you at high risk.
I also live in Australia and I think you’re forgetting what 99% of vehicles are used for. I can’t even remember the last time I was more than 50km from a fuel station.
I think you’re forgetting what 99% of vehicles are used for.
Nope. It’s unusual that your brain would think that.
I can’t even remember the last time I was more than 50km from a fuel station.
If you think that’s nothing to be concerned about, I wouldn’t worry. Maybe check in with a GP if it keeps happening.
So, anyway, back to the practicality of EV range—especially a Cybertruck—in common off-road conditions. Or was that your input? Sharing what your brain does? Yeesh.
He didn’t forget. You just couldn’t resist doing that superior aussie bullshit, even when it’s your countryman.
65 l/100km… Holy shit, a Bugatti Veyron running at top speed over 400km/h is consuming 122 l/100km.
That’s insane
Yup. Terrain is much different to a road, speed is slow, revs are high. The engine has to do a lot more work over much less distance.
A decent mileage to cross the Simpson Desert is around 20-25l/100km for vehicles that do around 10-12 on road. And that’s mostly still using established tracks where speed stays up fairly well and revs stay moderately low overall.
I don’t know what you’re driving but even driving in the Himalayas at 12000ft would give you more range per 100L than that
Who the fuck does that? Your example is bullshit.
You’re in a thread about an offroad capable vehicle, where people might share their experiences with offroading. They’re sharing their experiences because it’s relevant, not because most people go offroading.
Sounds like they have a loaded up landcruiser or similar, and maybe are towing?
I have a loaded up (and I mean fully loaded) Nissan, towing, and i get about 400km to every 60ltrs. Not good.
Hybrid Land Cruiser?
The cooled seats, passenger visibility, handling characteristics, acceleration, speed, and steer-by-wire system were also appreciated. The fact that the truck gets a lot of attention, including from people who want to touch the pickup and take photos, not so much.
So they bought the attention seeker pickup truck, but got more attention than they bargained for? lol
Super shitty. I have an antique car and when people want to check it out and take pictures with it they sometimes ask if that’s okay. I always say “if I didn’t want people to look at it and enjoy it I shouldn’t drive it around.”
My 2008 city golf has gotten 600kms on 55L(typical fill for me is about 52 litres)
Thats all highway driving and not being an idiot.
Im lucky to get 400 kms on a tank in the middle of winter just driving to work and back. Think the worst i got is 385 kms.
I dont understand why people are so upset at not getting the listed mileage when literally every car is only as good as the driver.
Ive delivered auto parts in a 2014/2015 prius V hybrid (not plugin) doing about 1500 kms a week.
Depending entirely on how i drove i could get 735 kms to a 35 litre tank or about 490 kms. Same route. Just how you drive. Idling and acceleration are the most important factors in real world driving that effect your fuel efficiency aside from how much extra weight is being hauled around
Electric cars don’t idle
You misunderstand why i mentioned that it seems. Allow me to clarify.
The point is not how ICE and EV differ, it was brought up to support the real world issues that cause a listed range to be untrustworthy because how you operate a thing effects its perfmance.
I do not drive an EV and did not spend 8 hours a day often 6 days a week driving one around the city i live in so i cant say i have relevent experience to say how much idling effects the EV, but if a device is on, its using energy to stay on, so idling at lights will have some kind of drain on the battery that will give you less range.
How can it not? It wont be the same i totally agree but I cant imagine it wont make some kind of difference
Lights will be on, typically you will be listening to something on the entertainment system, passengers will also using whatever features exist but just multiple screens on while the vehicle is “running”
Again i dont use an EV so i admit i dont know all you might be doing in one that will be used, but i think im more ignorant of what can drain it while on and not overstating anything
Thank you for the response
Lights will be on, typically you will be listening to something on the entertainment system, passengers will also using whatever features exist but just multiple screens on while the vehicle is “running”
yeah that’s different. I was talking about the engine/motor.
Lights and sound will barely affect an EV battery. maybe you’ll lose 5 miles (at most) of range.
Okay but you are picking specifics and arent acknowledging the point im making, so i have to assume you missed my point.
If you only drive 10k to work and 10k home, and you have to stop at a lot of lights then you are constantly starting and stopping. The need to stop your movement, then get back up to speed aka stop and go traffic is going to absolutely gut your mileage, EV or ICE.
That same 20k every day that is mostly just staying in motion is going to be drastically different for your overall mileage. If you also drive aggressively and speed a lot you are going kill that mileage even more in stop and go traffic.
So again the listed mileage is under ideal conditions which is never what you see
My point is how you drive and what you encounter will determine how close you will get to the listed mileage value no matter what vehicle you drive. Its pretty naive to complain about it just because Elon Shithead is trying to sell a ridiculous vehicle and is a shithead
Theres much better and more honest arguments/factors to point out if you want to complain about Cybertruck or tesla in general.
But thank you for letting me know that the internal electical features barely factor in to EV mileage. Its good to know if im ever able to afford an EV
No I get your point. But there are a few details.
The need to stop your movement, then get back up to speed aka stop and go traffic is going to absolutely gut your mileage, EV or ICE.
Regenerative braking is supposed to help. I don’t really know how much though, so ignore my point here
Elon Shithead is trying to sell a ridiculous vehicle and is a shithead
LOL this is completely true though. I’m never buying a tesla. there are better EVs.
That’s about the range of the current fiat 500e to Chevy Bolt. Both of which cost half of what this does.
This is irrelevant if you need a truck. Neither one of those is picking up plywood from home depot for example.
Neither is the cybertruck
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But the cybertruck also fails at looking cool, unless if maybe the idea is to look cool to children.
I think it does look pretty cool. I applaud automotive design that dares to be different. Everything nowadays is a giant snarling grill with angry anime eye headlights up front, then a bunch of superfluous sharp creases and fake air vents to add visual elements for the sake of it. Tesla took a boldly minimalist approach with this one.
Before you crucify me, note that I don’t particularly like the vehicle overall - it doesn’t seem to be a design that translates well to mass production, practicality of maintenance, or pedestrian safety. It’s no Alfa 33 Stradale, but I think visual flare isn’t an area you can fault it much.
Rivian has done a good job of embracing EV design features (e.g. lack of need for frontal air intakes) in a more conventional way.
It certainly does dare to be different, but Tesla should’ve gone for a more conventional design for their first truck. The main appeal of Tesla was their mostly conventional designs at a time when many companies kept shooting for a goofy concept car look for their final designs that screamed “THIS IS AN EV”. The cybertruck is minimalist in a sense, but also excessive in its pointiness, use of stainless steel, and how much it ignores the purpose of a pickup truck (i.e. the truck bed). If visual flare is defined as sticking out like a sore thumb, it definitely accomplishes that, but it’s not a pretty vehicle.
Who said anything about contractors? I’m currently watching the ev truck market because I diy a lot of shit and hate having to rent a truck to buy plywood. These aren’t for contractors.
It’s cheaper to rent the truck and plan your trips well. Hell even better, rent a work van since they can fit more in general.
It’s much more time consuming and problem prone. I’ve lived this way for years now and want to be able to just drive out and haul shit without the hassle. This shit is a hobby and the rental nonsense makes it feel like work.
I understand it if you are using it like weekly, but the savings are substantial if you just rent.
Okay. The F150 Lighting has a range of 240-300 miles per charge, and an MSRP starting at $50k, compared to the cyber truck starting at $81k.
Yeah, not saying I even like the cybertruck (I don’t), just that those other evs as re not comparable in any way other than fuel source.
As someone how yesterday got home 3 pallets and 4 pallet collar’s in a Twingo. I disagree.
You don’t want to do that every day for work, but in a pinch small cars fit enough. Need more room for a project at home? Get a cart. My Twingo can tow a light cart. That’s 99% of all use cases for me.
Need even more rent a van. We did that with moving houses and it fits so much more then a pickup.
I really think 99% of people will be fine with a small car and a hinge. You get pretty good mileage and a small car that is not a dead trap for everybody outside. Even small ev’s are great for that.
There’s unfortunately no trick to bringing home full 4x8 sheets which is generally what I need. And the rental is too much hassle, especially for small quantities. You need somewhere to park a 4x8 trailer, they’re not small.
It’s not irrelevant. The two cars I compared it to are smaller, yet they go further at much less cost. To me that sounds like the Cybertruck is way too heavy.
The vehicle isn’t even a month old, how have people already
hordrove 10K miles?How long is this in world units?
Here, try this.
Fuck yes, finally I can apply my knowledge of first 10” numbers of the fibonacci series
