Hamas tried to sneak its fighters out of the Gaza Strip in ambulances that evacuated dozens of wounded Palestinians to Egypt earlier this week, a senior Biden administration official said Friday.
Hamas had compiled a list of the seriously wounded that it wanted to evacuate from Gaza for treatment in Egypt, along with thousands of foreign nationals looking to flee the enclave.
The list was then vetted by Egypt and the United States, which found that a third of the names on it were of Hamas fighters, the administration official said, adding that the list was rejected and none of the 76 wounded Palestinians who were ultimately evacuated in ambulances out of Gaza were members of the terror group.
Isn’t it convenient how every time the US or Israel bombs civilians they automatically know they we’re secretly terrorists the whole time?
Almost as if they were intentionally targeting terrorists…
Not saying they aren’t lying, but this proves exactly nothing.
You’re absolutely correct.
Another plausible scenario is they’re killing potential targets, but they’re not too picky about it. And if anybody asks they will confirm that there were actually terrorists there
Or terrorist sympathizers
Or people who hang out with terrorists
Or people who live near terrorists
Or people who promote narratives that terrorists take advantage of …
We just don’t know, we know the explosions happen, we know people are dying, the rest is propaganda from both directions
I think they must present their considerations/justifications to neutral third party, but there’s danger of very potent intelligence being publicized. Imagine if IDF/US military had a high ranking informant among Hamas leadership, who then let them know that they plan to use ambulance movement to smuggle forces/equipment in and out of Gaza. If they publish it far and wide, that person is in grave danger, but more impactful - they won’t be able to provide Intel anymore…
Ya it’s like they’re using the multiple billions of dollars we’ve invested in spy satellites and other technologies to track people against Hamas or something…
It’d like the largest military and intelligence network was involved somehow…
Also these guys aren’t all “secret” terrorists. They go on TV and shit.
Is the US intelligence that good?
It just seems that in USA it’s self they can know about a guy whose been calling for help because he’s on the verge of shooting up a place and they don’t do nothing about it until they start shooting things up. US intelligence seems incredibly dysfunctional and if they can’t sort things out at home I don’t know how they would figure these things out abroad.
Internal affair with 1 citizen is a police matter. Terrorists are the intelligence community’s focus. The same organizations wouldn’t be involved in both examples.
Fair point.
Oh so they just have a big list of every Hamas member and can vette them from name alone?
Ahmad Awad? Yeah, sorry bud, there’s a couple hundred of you on the list.
People have social security numbers, you know. It’s not some desert with camels where everyone is called Ahmad Awad.
Really shameful that the US is aiding and abetting genocide.
I’m sure Hamas would slaughter the Israelis if they got the chance—oh wait they are. Both sides of the coin is genocide.
They’re both killing each other. America sides with its homie because they’ve been ride or die for a while. It’s hood politics. Always will be.
Par for the course. One group of violent European settlers defending another.
Maybe, I mean that would be exactly the sort of data I would expect my intelligence services to acquire. Especially in a place like Egypt that has suffered so much from the crimes of the Muslim Brotherhood.
Why not just let them through? Arrest them on the other side. They’re terrorists right? Arresting them and giving them a trial shouldn’t be an issue. They’re vulnerable when they cross the border
Actually: why not let memebers of Hamas surrender themselves at the border? If it’s a war, accepting voluntary POWs should be a net positive
Well, hopefully they instead just stay where they are, and being grievously wounded, die from them. Unfortunately some will probably survive to keep fighting.
Actually: why not let memebers of Hamas surrender themselves at the border? If it’s a war, accepting voluntary POWs should be a net positive
Members of Hamas are considered part of the Muslim Brotherhood (as they started as an offshoot). And because of the mass murder and shit the Brotherhood has done in Egypt over the years; they’ve been summarily banned. So Hamas members are not allowed to enter Egypt.
That’s part of why Hamas had to supply a list of names before sending them so Egypt could ensure no Hamas members were part of the list.
Why not allow them to pass and then arrest them at the border? Surely better than bombing random buildings that may or may not have Hamas fighters inside.
Doing that would prompt Hamas to stop cooperating with allowing civilians to seek medical assistance outside of Gaza.
Literally every humanitarian thing Hamas permits it does so with the intention of funneling benefits to its own fighters and members.
It’s the same problem as African warlords intercepting and sitting on medical aid intended for impoverished villagers.
A system which perfectly excluded Hamas cronies and fighters from receiving the benefits is one which Hamas will begin targeting for attack because they would rather Palestinians die than be able to get aid through means outside of Hamas’ approval and exploitation
Egypt doesn’t want to deal with that. That’s actually why what were reticent at first to help and why neighboring Arab countries won’t take refugees. Radical militants have snuck in with Palestinian refugees before and caused civil wars. They even killed the King of Jordan in what was eventually called Black September.
Why not arrest them then, if they have proof of being terrorists?
It’s an active warzone.
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2 / 3 palestinians in gaza support hamas. They won’t arrest them.
and then what? terrorists cant be reprogrammed. just arrest them and then… what?
What happens when someone is arrested? That’s what.
so what do you do with them? hold them indefinitely?
I’d say killing people is considered a no-no in general
I mean usually that’s what due process is like. You can also execute them, but that’s usually considered a war crime.
Not really tho, if they are terrorists and not soldiers
They’re both, though. Hamas is the government of Gaza.
Technically Hamas is the government of Palestine, albeit no election for many years, what defines soldier vs terrorist if the terrorists are working for the government?
The fuck are you talking about? There are multiple deradicalization programs globally, at least two major government run ones in the Middle East.
I understand the skepticism, but this is where it’s good to know your history. Radical militants have snuck in with Palestinian refugees before in the past. This has happened before.
It’s why Egypt was so reticent to accept refugees. These radicals have snuck in and caused civil strife. They even killed the King of Jordan, in what’s called Black September. This is why neighboring Arab countries aren’t taking in refugees either.
Hamas is utterly evil.
Oh I’m not really that skeptical of the report. Hamas has done this multiple times before.
🧐
This explanation sounds too flimsy to believe. Seems more like a cover story after the fact for the insane bombing of hospitals and a caravan of ambulances within a clear pattern of overall genocide.
It’s not like Hamas hasn’t been caught using ambulances to smuggle military goods around before.
I can believe this happens without condoning just bombing the shit out of any group of ambulances because they might contain fighters.
I think these hamas ambulances are as real as the middle eastern WMDs.
Forgive me if I don’t take everything the US says on the matter at face value.
It was a joint verification with Egypt
aka terrorists do terrorist things
Also trying to smuggle in military supplies in humanitarian aid:
Meanwhile, two senior Israeli officials told The Times of Israel that Israeli inspectors earlier this week uncovered several oxygen concentrators meant to aerate the tunnels operated by terror organizations in Gaza.
“These weren’t for use in the hospitals, but below them. That’s why they were smuggled among boxes of cookies,” one of the senior Israeli officials said, adding that the entire truck in which the oxygen concentrators were found was barred from entering Gaza.
I mean, how do they know where they’re meant to be used? If Gazans can’t get oxygen concentrators legally they’re very much right to smuggle them.
right to smuggle them
They were told by the US and the UN what types of aid will be allowed in. Smuggling only hurts Gaza from getting the aid it needs.
But the aid it needs includes oxygen concentrators. Some people need these things not to die.
That’s how you end up with a blockade and no more aid entering Gaza. Is that what you want for those people?
Well I want people who need oxygen concentrators to get them and not die.
The Israeli source was trying to claim these have no medical use but a quick Google search reveals that indeed they are mostly used for medical reasons and can be found in hospitals or at the homes of patients.
Fighters need medical treatment like anyone else when they get wounded, just saying …
Nah. Terrorists who cut people’s heads off can have medical treatment when they surrender.
I wish it was as simple as good vs evil. Sorry to tell you but the world is not a lotr movie, in fact it´s quite complicated …
There’s no need to be cutting civilian’s heads off regardless of your back story. That is evil.
That is an obvious and trivial truth that I of course agree with. However, murdering innocent palestinian olive farmers, to steal their land and build illegal settlements on it also seems pretty evil, right?
Obviously
They won’t answer, because they can’t see Palestinians as humans.
I didn’t say anything about either side. All I said is cutting people’s heads off is evil. I also specifically mentioned civilians without stating a side. Great assumptions though.
For the record both sides are monsters. Whether they were driven to it in your opinion or not. And the civilians on both sides are victims.
For the record both sides are monsters. Whether they were driven to it in your opinion or not. And the civilians on both sides are victims.
I see now that we in fact share the same opinion.
Sorry then. The previous poster mentioned be headings that weren’t verified.
I never said it was simple. But Hamas murdered completely innocent civilians - including babies - that they actively and intentionally targeted. They are irredeemable monsters.
IDF does the same though
It is simple. Want medical treatment, surrender. Want to conduct acts of terror FAFO
Not in this case…
In any case!
There are many people on both sides who see it the way you do. Funny part is, what side is good and what side is evil changes, based on who you ask. Based on individual perspective, ones terrorist is another ones freedom fighter. Please understand that ones judgement is only a personal, subjective opinion and never an objective truth and that one atrocity can never justify another atrocity.
Like you said later, the world isn’t simple good and evil. If they don’t surrender, they don’t get treatment. The IDF would hardly treat a member of Hamas and Hamas would hardly treat a member of the IDF. A group treating civilians can tell members of both to fuck off.
Nope, doctors even swear to not do that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath
World isn’t simple good and evil. They may have a symbolic oath, but nothing says everyone else has to follow it.
You are entitled to have that opinion, have a nice day.
But you’re not entitled to enter Egypt to get it if your a member of Hamas, as the Muslim Brotherhood and it’s offshoots are banned there.
Every injured person deserves treatment, no exceptions, anything else would be inhumane.
Would you force Germany to admit a Nazi if they were sick?
What do you mean by admit? You mean to treat? Yes of course. As I said, imo every sick or injured person deserves medical treatment, no matter their background. Also, when they are healthy again, I would want to see that Nazi getting put in front of a court, questioned, convicted and punished as the law dictates.
Admit, to allow to enter.
Yes of course I would, how else could they convict him for his crimes?
Egypt doesn’t want to admit people from a group that successfully terrorized their whole nation for an extended period of time. They have no interest in convicting them.
Yeah these people killed and raped babies. Then they laughed about it. They don’t deserve shit until they surrender.
Youre talking about israel, right? The people that have been reported doing that for decades?
Nobody’s raping babies.
Source? Who am I kidding, you made it up
“Israeli forces in Kfar Aza and Be’eri[112] reported that they found bodies of victims mutilated. One IDF commander told a reporter from i24 News that 40 babies had been killed, out of what one estimate described as at least 100 civilian victims.[113][93][114][115][116][117]”
. That’s the best you’ll get from me.
Thanks for taking the time. But there was no mention of them raping babies.
If you keep reading the wiki page, there is.
Read it twice. No raped babies. Did a word search for rape and babies. Horrific tales of Palestinian girls in Israeli jails.
I wish it was as simple as good vs evil. Sorry to tell you but the world is not a lotr movie, in fact it´s quite complicated …
I never said it was. The world is full of shades of grey.
But the way this group has tried to resist oppression is despicable and cannot be excused.
@photonic_sorcerer @Nacktmull It can’t be excused yet. No one is working diligently to liberate Palestine from Israel. No one has in decades
True, and yet non-violent revolutions have succeded in the past. Hamas wants to raze Israel from the face of the earth. They have no place in a civilized society.
I fully agree but wonder why you don´t mention the other half of this truth. Obviously human slaughtering terrorists have no place in a civilized society. However, it must also be said that there is no place in a civilized society for right-extremist-racists, who murder residents and occupy their land to build illegal settlements.
Agreed
@photonic_sorcerer oh btw, saying “Hamas wants to raze Israel from the earth”, while Israel builds settlements, refusing to negotiate, commits ethnic cleansing, and brutalizes Palestinians in a myriad of other ways proves you have no idea what’s going on over there
@photonic_sorcerer I would agree with you except for the fact that Israel learned from that, and outlawed peaceful protesting. Yeah, if you peacefully protest against Israel in Israel, they’ll throw you in prison. They made their own problem here.
Israel has proven that all they learned from the Holocaust was how to do it betterBruh
Source?
I never said it was. The world is full of shades of grey.
You first comment seemed to imply a different worldview, apologies.
But the way this group has tried to resist oppression is despicable and cannot be excused.
Of course it can´t. There is guerrilla warfare and then there is barbaric slaughtering of helpless civilians. Those are absolutely not the same.
No it’s not, see the reaction of journalists/politicians who attended the screening of 43 minutes of 7-Oct atrocities…
Both sides have been in an exchange of atrocities for decades now. What is your point?
Those stories regarding killing babies have been shown conclusively to be false, and the journalists responsible have publicly retracted the statements and apologized for the disinformation.
Wounded soldiers are still wounded. The principle of hors de combat applies. If you’re wounded and in an ambulance, you’re a non-combatant and protected under the Geneva Conventions.
Not that the IDF has actually read the Geneva Conventions…
I don’t think that these were wounded soldiers.
The departure list says they are wounded soldiers.
They’re also going to Egypt lol (and there are already tunnels between Gaza and Egypt)
Yes yes, good to see the news from the unbiased source of…lowers glasses…Times of Israel
Other places are reporting it too. If you have a counter source please post.
I mean, technically most of the Hamas fighters would be Gazans, so it’s not like they were lying …
Collective punishment is a war crime
