Hahahahaha. Like they’ll listen to anything he says.
Ffs, performative politics is all the dems know how to do. We want action, they want status quo or maybe slightly better, but they certainly don’t wanna go to the mattresses. That’s how we got here.
Maybe it’s time to stop calling them to leave and time to kick them out
Federal agents: “No.”
Your move, Walz. Your constituents are being murdered in the street. Are you going to grow a pair and actually do something? Or are you just gonna keep talking like a worthless fucking politician?
Yeah, Walz, why aren’t you personally removing armed state military from the streets? Walz, why didn’t you start a revolution yet, Walz? Too much of a pussy, Walz? I almost stood up from my sofa, that’s how I am angry at you, Walz.
I nodded along with this comment, and then got thinking about the nation-state-military caliber funding that ICE was handed recently.
And, after a bit of mental breadth-first search of where that train of thought could have led, I was left with a frown thinking “this could get so much more bloody so quickly.”
Aipac really nuetered him during the campaign, since then he hasnt done anything noteworthy.
He most likely actually is involved in some kind of dirty dealing. Probably nothing like what the conservatives are screaming about, likely more to do with some improper donations or dealings with China, the kind of boring, low-level violation that gets liberals so twisted up that they fold at the slightest pressure.
Meanwhile the GOP will openly fund a candidate with like, a mountain of stolen Aztek gold and have sacks of Russian money parachute onto their convention stage with a line of chained sex slaves behind them and they’ll shrug and go “whoopsie!” and the media cycle will move on with sports and weather.
What Aztek gold may look like:
Might be the best reply I’ve gotten all day about anything.
deport them. MN knows how to remove ice and snow from the roads. plows could be useful
If I were in his shoes, I’d be really fucking reluctant to give any order that would result in a bloodbath. I mean, we can all guess by now that it will end up that way, but I don’t think we should be so quick to condemn a man that doesn’t lightly order violence.
Pressure him into taking action, because that pressure may ease the weight of responsibility, but understand that it’s a heavy weight to bear. Pretty sure he didn’t go into that job expecting to face a civil war.
Yeah, that’s kind of how democracy works. There should be direct and obvious connection between actions that drastic and the will of the people. Starting a war with the government isn’t something that a governor should be able to just do with one order.
Exactly. That such a decision requires public pressure is, for once, a system working as it should. The question is which pressure he’ll give in to: The feds’ demands or his people’s.
What’s with this apologism for feckless liberals? He doesn’t have to order the National Guard to open fire on ICE, but he could start with, you know, not sending state police to brutalize protestors at the site of the most recent public execution.
I don’t give a fuck if he feels a heavy weight, it’s nothing compared to the families of the dead. Dead because of an institution his party funded just as often as the Republicans did. It’s time for him to rise to the occasion or (infinitely more likely) time for us to recognize there’s no spine in his body and it depends entirely on us - which means he’s against us.
What’s with this apologism for feckless liberals?
It wasn’t intended to absolve him from the responsibility of having to do something, if that’s how it came across. In the context of people calling on him to mobilise the NG and use them to drive out ICE, I wanted to point out that it would be akin to starting open civil war, and that any responsible commander would and should grapple with that decision. It’s not about excusing so much as understanding.
sending state police to brutalize protestors at the site of the most recent public execution.
I didn’t know that at the time I made the comment. Like I said, I was mostly seeing people call for military action left and right.
I don’t give a fuck if he feels a heavy weight, it’s nothing compared to the families of the dead.
And if he orders the NG to deploy against ICE, there will be even more dead and more grieving families as a result of his orders. I think you’re a little too quick to dismiss the weight of that decision. Yes, people will die if he does nothing as well, which is why he has to do something. I’m not excusing his inaction.
In an escalating time of violence and rage, I’m trying to remind people of their humanity: Pressure him to do his job, by all means, but do so in full awareness what you’re asking of him.
I think the most acceptable course of action at this point would be having the NG shadow ICE everywhere they go, with instructions to protect the safety and civil rights of the protestors and other humans (regardless of citizenship status).
Then the ball is in ICE’s court. Let them be the ones who escalate.
But yes, Tim Walz’s approach so far has been to sic his state police on the protestors and send the NG out for donut-and-coffee photo ops while doing nothing to meaningfully protect the citizens. I won’t give him a pass on that, it’s the job he signed up for and got paid our tax dollars to do.
I won’t give him a pass on that, it’s the job he signed up for and got paid our tax dollars to do.
And you shouldn’t give him a pass either. Let’s hope his heart is in the right place and his courage will catch up.
Well put.
so far he has not even made words of criticizing or threatening them, its all empty words, super-non confrontational.
He absolutely should do something effective, agreed. He’s made Holocaust comparisons, if I caught that right, and “blasted” the federal government, but right now it appears to be mostly rhetorical posturing (which is still important preparation for any non-rhetorical face-off, but isn’t yet enough to effectively stop them).
I understand that it’s a delicate situation to be placed in, because confrontation may prompt the deranged terrorists into targeting him, which would most likely escalate into civil conflict of some scale. If that happened, he’d want all ducks lined up and ready to make that conflict as quick and decisive as possible so the rest of their force doesn’t have a foothold and hopefully decides to write off the incident rather than continuing to escalate.
He’s in too critical a position to just do nothing out of fear, but he’s also a civil administrator with military training handling what’s liable to become a military affair with civilians in the crossfire. It’s a fucking powder keg and he doesn’t want to blow it up if he can avoid it, whether for his own sake or for that of his people.
Still, like I said, keep pressuring him. His people need to show “we’re willing to fight these terrorists, whether with or without you.” If he’s hesitant to inflict this on his people, it eases the weight of the decision. If he’s hesitant for his own sake, it risks making him the enemy. Better to pressure him into an organised response than to wait for an uncontrolled one.
Me saying “I understand why he’s holding back so far” doesn’t mean “He should keep doing that”. It’s an appeal to remember the human that’s being faced with a terrible choice, so that efforts to pressure him may do so in a conscious, focused manner.
But he must be pressured.
Cut power to their buildings and to the hotels they’re staying. Now that it’s super cold out. Threaten them with freezing. Then order a slow as fuck inquiry to find out why there is no power and clutch your pearls.
If you genuinely want to disrupt them, you can.
Otherwise STFU with the rhetorical posturing.
Lead or get out of the way. Enough.
Walz has the power and authority to simply call up the National Guard, which he rightfully commands, and say “Hey keep ICE out of the city.” Same with the cops.
The president can send orders to deploy the NG here or there, but he doesn’t have control over their orders or what they’re supposed to be doing exactly. That still falls to governors. And the Minnesota national guard command has already indicated that they would follow orders from the governor and uphold the constitution over the president. And there’s absolutely no love between the Minneapolis police and ICE.
I don’t know why we’re not actually acting likes States. We’re “United States” not one big, single state called “America.” States have the power, the Federal Government works for the states.
It seems likely to me he/ dems know this will tip off a civil war and they are still hoping to find a different way of dealing with this. Something less bloody. No decent person wants to make the choice that is the final straw before thousands die. Also, even if they recognize it to be inevitable it is necessary to wait until the masses are aligned. The way you-and all the rest of us- are getting fed up is a sign the fruit is almost ripe.
Or they could just be compromised cowards. It doesn’t really matter actually, at some point the tide will flood the city streets and then someone will show up to lead.
schumer and jefferies wants to fund ICE, we know thier allegience.
Nobody with half a brain thinks an actual civil war is happening in the next several decades at least, but the idea holds that they think there’s a “high road” that will lead to everyone getting along and being civil to each other, and most importantly to them, establishment democrats keeping their positions of secured power with their old money and new donors.
Civil unrest is absolutely going to get worse and worse, but that’s not what the current DNC leadership cares at all about, if you follow the money you realize that there’s only one political party and they’re doing a kayfabe act to keep people hooked on the drama and narrative, despite actual lives being lost as a consequence.
Their only actual fear right now is that we sweep out the incumbent democrat leadership this November.
that is why they toned down on politically attacking zohran in NYC, the more people voting can hurt the Old guard dnc.
Democrats have more to gain from ICE shooting people than Trump does.
If he and the mayor really care, why don’t they use city police to enforce the laws ICE and CBP are violating on a daily basis? They may have federal immunity but they are committing state crimes in broad daylight like it’s going out of style. Arrest some criminals like you’re supposed to. Not an all-out war between police forces, just, you know, regular law enforcement.
it seems like ice/cpd would be easily scared off if any police or armed presence suddenly appear, right now they both arnt doing anything. trumpis going to escalate it anyways, and politically they are trying to turn the state towards the gop out of frustation that the dems arnt doing anything.
“Pwease weave. Pwetty pwease.”
Grow some fucking balls and DO something besides jack your massaging jaw, you useless old fuck.
Walz is a typical democrat.
He talks a big game and has great bluster.
but when the cards hit the table, he rolls over, shows his belly and shits himself
He should have activated the national guard weeks ago. He should have had them on the streets everywhere that ICE was at, Following them where ever they went, with orders to intervene anytime they stepped out of line.
He should have been ordering every state law enforcement agency to follow ICE, and arrest them every time they abducted a child, every time they assaulted an innocent civilian, anytime they’ve murdered an innocent person.
but instead of doing anything useful and proactive to protect his state, he keeps going on twitter and begging “pwease mistur pwesident, stahp hwurting my pepulz. pretty pwease?”
Oh shut the fuck up, honestly. I think I’m going to delete Lemmy, the amount of fucking no bodies who have never had a hard day in their life calling for State governments to police federal agencies and blood to run in the streets is madness. You all have no idea what you’re actually advocating for.
Oh look, someone using their imaginary narrative of things no one said to try and derail the topic.
Gee, I wonder what group of people would have a vested interest in trying to derail this topic, by claiming people are calling for blood in the streets… while ICE is literally pouring gallons of blood in the street every day that they never seem to have a single critical comment on. 🤔
Fuck ICE
Don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out
Please do delete Lemmy, we don’t need liberal apologists here.
Hes not even a fuckin American. Just another foreign agent shit stirrer.
Bruh lol
I’m about 95% sure that there’s dirt on Walz.
Not like, “taking Saudi money to look the other way over political assassination” dirt, but like typical, milquetoast establishment Democrat corruption, some money changing hands somewhere, maybe something to do with China. The kind of thing that the Republicans would do and it would be buried in the news cycle within 5 hours, but if a Dem is caught cheating even stupidly and mildly, they will roll over screaming like a startled baby goat.
Dems are too hung up on “The high road” and fold so easily under the slightest threat of being called out for something improper. Looking at you Al Franken, for forever staining the entire liberal left with the shame of being the weakest, most pathetic losers, incapable of actually protecting their constituents.
Walz is a Zionist. Getting Israel ahead is his game.
I don’t know why you think this is the secret that ends his career. Dems fail the purity tests of the type of people that actually care about that and voted Trump by not showing up. Or in even worse cases, went full horseshoe theory and actually voted Trump.
Refusing to vote for the dogs of a genocidal regime is less “purity test” and more “basic humanity”.
No, see, you were given a choice.
a) Reasonably tepid president’s vice president. No great achievements, but no strongly notable transgressions against the people of the country. Policies not actively progressive but not actively hostile. Supports Ukraine. Supports Israel. Runs on the platform of moderate politics.
b) Multiple times convicted felon, strongly suspected of being a pedophile and child trafficker. Catastrophic first term. Weak foreign policy in first term, already schmoozing up to military enemies of the country. Supports nothing but his own pocket.
How is that not a purity test? Even if you’re a normal person that is sternly anti-Israel, you have singled out one issue in which one candidate performs (probably, we don’t even know) worse than the other one. And still outperforms the other one on all other issues unless you’re a ten toes down white supremacist with the sole life goal to make sure people with a darker skin color suffer and a deeper pocket prosper. That’s what we call, say it with me, a purity test. Your refusal to go out and vote is complicity in the murder of Renee Good and Alex Pretti. Don’t preach to me about humanity, you’re probably not even from the US.
against the people of the country.
Thing is, I care about humanity, not just “the people of the country”. Therefore, “supports Israel” is a dealbreaker.
Supporting the existence of Israel is supporting genocide. I will never vote for someone with such blood on their hands. If you would, especially to maintain your own comfort and privilege, then your soul is compromised.
That’s the American way. Next they will SLAM the government and nothing will happen.
I mean he called in the Minnesota National Guard.
…and then what?
Nothing. Because that’s all Democrats will ever be good for: theater.
At the time you made this comment he’d called in the MN guard… a day before.
Currently the guard is feeding protesters so IDK man, that’s actually pretty big.
No, it’s not lol, it’s completely inconsequential. They didn’t protect the protestor whose hand was blown off by ICE’s use of “less lethal” munitions this morning. I don’t give a fuck if they pass out donuts and do some PR segments, there’s no evidence to suggest they’re meaningfully on our side… yet. Especially after state police brutalized protestors at the site of Alex’s murder.
I’m eager to be wrong. I think it’s a vital turning point so I very, very, very much hope to be wrong. But I don’t see it yet.
Serious question, what would demonstrate they’re meaningfully on our side to you, but wouldn’t be a literal civil war? Because short of that, federal troops feeding protesters is a big deal.
Some places to start could be
- Following ICE wherever they go and documenting their conduct. Civilians are already doing this and Walz has requested that they do so, so having the military do at least what you’re expecting the citizens to do is literally the bare minimum.
- Warning citizens when ICE is approaching, perhaps even using state emergency warning systems. If this is considered protected First Amendment conduct for citizens, it may be for military as well. I’m not sure from a legal perspective, but they should be risking it to protect citizens. Especially since Trump constantly takes an “ask for forgiveness, not permission” approach.
- Put state resources behind the prosecution of Alex Pretti’s murderer. (It’s been intimated that this is being done via the BCA but I’m not seeing any actual indications of progress.)
- Put state resources behind enabling a general strike / eviction freeze / other economic benefits to both enable protest and prevent vulnerable immigrants from needing to go to work.
- Not fucking sending state police to brutalize protestors at the site of Alex Pretti’s murder.
I think those would all fall short of “a literal civil war”.
I see federal troops feeding protestors as an attempt to maintain the perception of the state as a legitimate authority without actually needing to take any meaningful action. “Look guys, they’re with us!”… except when the bullets / less-than-lethal projectiles start flying.
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Is a great thing, I hope they do this (though if they do follow through I suspect trump will order them to stop)
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Would unfortunately be a civil war thing - it’s not open conflict, but it would require the subversion of federal systems (the emergency warning systems) to actively sabotage federal troops. I don’t know about the free speech rights, but generally speaking the military has sharp restrictions on what counts as free speech.
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He was killed two days ago and the court hearing to attempt to ensure BCA has access to the site is ongoing as I write this so hopefully there will be progress soon!
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Another serious question (and setting aside the question of legality because who fuckin’ cares at this point), what resources should the state put out to support this? Having worked with several state governments, there’s not really “spare cash” floating around to enable this kind of unbelievable expenditure, so it’s somewhat limited to an eviction freeze (which is almost entirely out of the state’s control)
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Not really a national guard thing but fair enough. I’ve seen some limited vids from there but most of what I’ve seen was one violent interaction then the police fled, was there more than that? I’ve seen people say they came back that evening but I can’t find a good source for that.
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Maybe if he says it enough times they’ll leave. Or maybe he should enforce the law in his state.
he knows trump wants to declare martial law. and he knows trump could have him and his entire family murdered with one phone call. everyone’s waiting for someone to step up and show some leadership against fascism, and if it ever happens, it’s definitely not going to be someone in public office
and he knows trump could have him and his entire family murdered with one phone call.
Yes, [REDACTED] brought up the Hortman assassination a propos of nothing on social media, and within 12 hours, Walz dropped out of the governor’s race quite unexpectedly. That was my first thought, that the regime has made its threat clear to him.
We have a federal government that is using mob/cartel tactics to terrorize people into submission.
This is not okay.
I’ll take no shit for five dollars, Alex
What is constipation, Trebek?
Haha that’s awesome
I think he should never have run. It would have been an unprecedented 3rd term.
Then what the fuck is this guy even for?
to make it look like there’s someone in charge who gives a rat’s ass about you. that’s usually fine–but not when a fascist con man rapist sack of shit is president. it doesn’t matter how many innocent citizens are murdered–walz will do nothing beyond complaining about it .
We’re kinda at the do nothing and be murdered or do something and then maybe get killed for it stage.
Starting to seem like trying is the better option
Sometimes it’s better to die on your feet rather than your knees.
Talk the talk.
If we really honestly can’t figure out a better plan than to get our little glocks and go plink at em, then okay. But we’d have to be a whole lot dumber than I think we are.
I’m all ears on how your going to reason with might makes right peole to give up their power
Um, elections and proper application of the law.
Everyone here is so up their own butt about how it’s all corrupt and everything’s over man (after shitting on Harris for five months straight) but that’s the right way to do it.
If you just need to murder some brownshirts and want to take the consequences, then that’s always an option. It’s just not the best option. It’s not even a good option.
So what we’ve been doing for decades is your answer
Um, how many more need to get murdered by the government before you come up with something even the slightest bit more effective than “sit on our asses and keep getting murdered”?
We’re long past the third box of liberty, which (barring whatever incredible plan you’re working on) leaves us with either the fourth box, or just accept people being murdered.
The elections they’re talking about canceling and the rule of law that they are completely ignoring.
So while you’re waiting for that to work the rest of us need to figure out how to actually get something done.
No, you’re right. We’re being brigaded. A lot of accounts popping up out of nowhere with faulty – to be generous – knowledge of the US.
If the money is corrupting all players and steering the agenda, why not go after it? When we strike directly at agents of force, then we are directly attacking family and friends of a multitude of others, including of folks that may be trying to reconcile things. It will rile up his base into murder frenzy. Many undecided (dummies) will get swept up in the frenzy, because they’ll defer thinking to others around them. The rabid base have few relationships with their oligarch masters.
Lobotomize their think tanks.
Cut out the tongues of their media propagandists.
Bring any and all levels of direct action against the class that is causing this.
Plinking at them with our little glocks worked for 20 years in the Middle East.
Don’t ever underestimate will.
Pretty sure they were plinking with AKs and RPGs
Small arms is small arms
The Vietnamese did it and they were trapped in a cave with a bunch of scrap metal.
The Vietnamese were bad ass. But they didn’t have to fight facebook.
Buy a weapon before they close that pipeline.
I mean on the other hand, Trump kind of does want violent resistance to spring up so provide the Reichstag burning he’s been waiting for to amplify the cracking down. I mean, they kinda already had the Charlie Kirk shooting, and he kind of already can institute martial law whenever (it’s not constitutional but neither has been a single thing he’s done lately), and martial law won’t really lead to anything on its own anyway… I dunno, let’s keep resisting in effective ways. One idea is to make ICE’s life hell so they loathe their jobs and go home.
I’ve got a better idea, go to one of the net worth websites, take your pick and make some real change happen.
what
Eating the rich is an effective way is my point
Well yes that’s the main part of the plan, of course
These people literally ran for office specifically to represent the people. They shouldn’t be shy about putting things on the line
He needs to click his heels three times first. That’s why it’s not working.
Wonder if it would work to declare a state of emergency and mobilize the MN national guard to safeguard civilians? If they are already deployed can the president deploy them?
They’ve already been mobilized. They’re guarding the Whipple Concentration Camp.
Got downvoted for claiming all he and other democrats were going to do was angrily Tweet.
They angrily Tweeted and made phone calls.
How surprising.
Effective: “Today I am calling for the immediate arrest and trial of agents involved in the murders and abuses of state citizens”
Ineffective: “please leave”
“Today I am calling for the immediate arrest and trial of agents involved in the murders and abuses of state citizens”
We will, at the very least, find out immediately which side the army will fall on.
The second they confront or lock up the ‘federal agents’ The army will be called in. The administration want tanks on the streets, a show of power.
Ineffective: “please leave”
Also ineffective: “I call for X”
Effective: “I will be funding and giving media access to local self-defense groups, worker organizing, and mutual aid orgs. The threat comes from the state apparatus and the only way it can be defeated is by grassroots organizing”
What are you doing?
One of the primary goals of grassroots organizing is to take power. Walz already has the power. He should wield the state power against the federal government.
doesnt look like has interest into doing anything, then just repeating words like schumer and jefferies just for the sake of political points. he isnt even re-running for ree-lection he has little to lose, buts hes shilling like he needs to be re-elected. i wouldnt be surprised if someone dropped a big check in back account right after this.
I mean, maybe.
In Walz’ case, I don’t necessarily think it’s money. I don’t think a bribe is necessary, it’s just a cultural expectation among DNC politicians that you must be limp, ineffective, meek, weak-willed, civil to a near suicidal degree, and ambitionless.
But, those virtues ultimately come from the (corporate) consultants anyway, and I’m not much interested in defending Walz right now either, so fuck it. May as well be fucking bribed.
I’m not in the US, but I’m already militant in such organizations in my home country.
I’m sorry, I meant what are you doing in this comment section. As in, “what are you trying to accomplish.”
[edit] Also, I’m just going to assume these are good organizations: Right on, man. I’m glad you’re out there helping your fellow people.
Order them by threat of force
Anything else is just more posturing and god, we’ve seen so much posturing already
Or just hand over your voter rolls https://bsky.app/profile/chrismurphyct.bsky.social/post/3md7idhl3mc23
It is not within the authority of the Governor of the state to use force against federal agents.
These people pushing violence really seem to be happy with just throwing away everything about the country that we’re trying to save. These people are in lock step with the MAGA bots on the issue:
- Rules (only when I want them),
- Violence (excusable if the target is right),
- Democracy (They’re trying to steal it so lets throw it in the garbage before they can).
Don’t confuse a lot of upvotes with a popular opinion, it is trivial to make vote boosting bots on Lemmy.
If you are in the US, these people pushing this violent rhetoric are not on your side and are trying to push us into the same chaos as the MAGA forces.
You can have the national guard follow and chaperone ICE. There are no laws that say you must allow federal agents to break the law in front of you. They should be arrested when witnessing them violate the constitution.
Force only recognises force no? Newton.
LOL. you will lay face down in mud with the boots of an ICE on the back of your head and still think, “well, at least I upheld the dignity of Democracy!”.
GTFO with your “b-but both sides are bad!” garbage.
While the National Guard is prohibited from performing law enforcement on behalf of the President under the Posse Comitatus Act, the governor of the state they’re operating in can deputies them.for law enforcement.
He doesn’t need to wage war on ICE. He just needs them to be chaparroned by armed Nation Guard troops anywhere they go, and have them arrest ICE goons when they violate the law. If ICE gets proper judicial warrants and executes them lawfully, then there shouldn’t be any problems.
An important distinction on warrants is that an immigration judge cannot issue a judicial warrant because even though the word “judge” is in their title, they aren’t part of the judicial branch. They’re employees of the executive branch, so any warrants they hand out are administrative in nature and cannot legally be used to enter private property without consent.
While the National Guard is prohibited from performing law enforcement on behalf of the President under the Posse Comitatus Act, the governor of the state they’re operating in can deputies them.for law enforcement.
Yes.
He doesn’t need to wage war on ICE. He just needs them to be chaparroned by armed Nation Guard troops anywhere they go, and have them arrest ICE goons when they violate the law. If ICE gets proper judicial warrants and executes them lawfully, then there shouldn’t be any problems.
That isn’t what the person that I replied to was suggesting, nor what I was replying to.
If the Governor decided to “Order them by threat of force” to leave MN then he was be operating outside of his authority and would be ignored. If he attempted to use force against federal forces in an attempt to make them leave then he would be in armed rebellion against the US and would be arrested.
The only thing protecting him, the protestors, etc, is that they have not give Trump a reason to fabricate an excuse to use the Insurrection act that would survive a Federal court issuing a TRO. The protests have been peaceful (outside of a few ICE agents rioting with tear gas and less lethal munitions) and the public statements by officials have been measured so as to not allow them the slightest excuse that would stand up in court. The Trump admin’s only move here is to try to make inflammatory statements.
They don’t have any more ICE agents (and recruitment is drying up) that is why this is happening only in one place, this is everything they can muster. So they’re putting everything into one place to both punish MN people for voting against him and to create a violent reality TV show that keeps everyone tuned in instead of talking about the Epstein files, or Trump’s billion dollar profits from corruption, or the exploding cost of food, or the shitty foreign policy disaster that he’s created.
The protests and the terrible PR skills of the administration are showing effect. Go look at any reputable polling, Trump has always been unpopular outside of his base but now he is starting to lose support among his actual base. Right now, people are sickened by the attack and the government’s response blaming him owning a gun. 2nd Amendment supporters have typically been Trump supporters but they have broken with him because of the administration’s framing of ‘he had a gun and therefore deserved to die’. Even the NRA tweeted out against this framing.
Trump is tapped out, he’s hired every white supremacist and opportunist and only has a few thousand people to muster that will do the violence that he wants and even that is backfiring on him. He has been unable to fabricate other distractions (Greenland, Canada, Venezuela, etc) and has been incompetent in handling emerging events leading to even more backlash.
People framing this like this is our last chance and only violence or armed rebellion will save us are outside agitators or the useful idiots that they control. This framing is based on the ICE circus in MN and social media propaganda, not reality.
In reality, Trump is out of troops, out of support, dying in the polls (and possibly IRL) and is running out of allies, like MTG, as more Rs smell the blood in the water and jump ship. Every major public case in the courts have gone against him, he’s lost the VAST majority of other cases (source: https://www.lawfaremedia.org/projects-series/trials-of-the-trump-administration), his tariffs have pissed off the entire world and their response is targeted at his rich supporters (i.e. Jack Daniels distillery boycott).
The only thing that he can hope for is to find an excuse to invoke the Insurrection act so that it won’t be immediately blocked by a Federal Judge. Everyone that is here pushing for violence is trying to create the only out that Trump has left.
Trump isn’t all powerful, he’s playing the media game and has an army of bots from the various dictators around the world who want to see the US fail.
I’m sorry, but saving a democracy?
You can try and save the country from a civil war, maybe, but the US hasn’t been anywhere near a democracy for decades now. It’s just much more visible what it really is.
I’m not calling for violence, but the ilother side is violent and they’re not going to stop. Maga will eventually only listen to violence.
If you think that judges will make a difference then I can only tell you to get your head out of your ass, Maga politicians and organizations have been ignoring one court order after another, or get the supreme court to just say it’s fine.
I don’t know what it’ll take to fix this, but asking kindly will not suffice, that much is clear
If you think that judges will make a difference then I can only tell you to get your head out of your ass, Maga politicians and organizations have been ignoring one court order after another, or get the supreme court to just say it’s fine.
This is just nonsense and not based in reality.
Here is the list of every single case involving the Trump administration: https://www.lawfaremedia.org/projects-series/trials-of-the-trump-administration/tracking-trump-administration-litigation The vast majority of cases are losses and denied on appeal.
Are there still troops in California after the judge ordered them out? Is Kilmar Garcia still in CECOT after a judge ordered him returned? Has Mahmoud Khalil been deported despite a court order?
No, because the court orders are being followed. Yes, the US Justice Department lawyers do everything they can to avoid following them but they cannot tell a Judge no and the Judge is overseeing the case until their orders are followed.
You’re not arguing based on reality, you’re arguing based on social media optics.
I don’t know what it’ll take to fix this, but asking kindly will not suffice, that much is clear
“I’m not recommending violence, but nothing else will work”
Having an Impeachment trial, and blocking funding for DHS isn’t ‘asking nicely’ these are the powers that check the Executive branch in the US system of government.
If you don’t believe in that system of government then you’re no better than the alt-right fascists and are allied with enemies of the US.
This is an extremely egregious and dishonest comment. You are ironically waxing poetic about the law that the current admin has torn to shreds with the help of this lawless force that everyone else actually wants to stop. Let’s take a look here:
- Yes, we have to change the rules. It’s actually very rare that oppressive laws are overturned through entirely legal means. “I can kidnap, torture, and kill people if the state says it’s okay” is not the same as “Holy shit suspend that immediately I don’t care if it’s against the rules to do so”.
- Yes, violence is excusable if the target is committing heinous acts of wanton violence. We shouldn’t finger-wag murderers
- This goes back to point one, if your ““democracy”” allows for people to be violently oppressed like this, it is a total farce, and NEEDS to be entirely revamped.
You are, painfully obviously, someone who cares more about “stability” and “order” (dude just let the ruling class brutalize people every now and then, don’t rock the boat too hard) than any sense of actual justice and safety. Stop defending literal politicians, who INTENTIONALLY put themselves in this situation and BLOCK anyone actually willing to help stop this madness, while you encourage the already-oppressed masses to take on more trauma with far fewer resources. Note how you don’t even end your comment with any call to action like mutual aid, just “lalala these frustrated netizens are fake people block your ears!!”, fix this
You’re sure beating up those strawmen positions that I never stated or even believe.
You’re coming in here arguing that being mean to fascist goons is bad, and then when multiple people disagree you go “I actually, uh, didn’t mean what I typed directly in my comment!!”
Both of the things you’ve typed here are genuinely useless. Go talk to your neighbors and help them instead of being a counterrevolutionary on Lemmy. There’s a comment a bit further up on this very thread with extremely useful information, go read it.
there’s no question of authority here. you shoot someone you get arrested.
Maybe he can give them a basket of cookies too?
SEND IN THE NATIONAL GUARD. You state is under attack by gestapo and they are purposely destroying evidence to hide their crimes.
They must be force out with guns, not stern words. Your call waltz.
They sent NG, but many didn’t expect NG to defend the people.
I also saw a photo of an armed protest in Minneapolis following the shooting by ICE.
Have a link or copy of the photo you can share?
I don’t have a link, but here’s the photo
Love “not a cop” flair
Although, we are getting dangerously close to “Was Chaz good?” discourse
It was great
Of course CHAZ was good. The fact that it scared the piss out of cops and the media is proof enough.
oh now the media are paying attention. playing on donald’s golf cart, i hope
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That’s a good way to get the military to start bombing US cities.
Look more closely at the comments. We’re getting overrun with people trying to start shit, many of whom are not even from here.
Because everyone thinks you’re being cowardly
Heh, try that on someone who actually gives a shit what internet randos think of them.
Minnesota, Minneapolis, and Tim Walz are holding the line. They are fantastic. The very best of us. I literally could not be more proud of them, and of us, right now.
You, on the other hand, got nothing but empty words, talking about cowardice from behind a pseudonym and a keyboard like this is a junior high popularity contest and you’re jealous of the other girl’s miniskirt.
Seriously, try it on someone else while I go watch the news and see how Minnesota is refusing to take the bait.
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Another toothless message. What a joke. Trump is going to invoke the Insurrection Act regardless of what you do. At least protect your damn citizens from cold-blooded federal jackboots!
Using the cold-blooded state jackboots? Where’s the force that would side with protestors strongly enough to go up against ICE?
If they push hard enough the citizens of MN will engage in asymmetric warfare like every other occupied group. The IRA, Palestinians, Vietnamese, Iraqis, etc. It’s the ultimate way to deal with militarily superior occupying forces. I can see IEDs blowing these federal thugs to the moon.
Americans are complacent. Part of it is living paycheck to paycheck, and part of it is that the bread and circuses have quite a few psychological tricks and chemical boosts to make them much more addictive than anything the romans could have dreamed of.
That “push hard” bit will need to be as extreme as the bombing campaign against the vietnamese was in order to get any action.
closest thing is we are basically like russia, thier population is so pacified they arnt going to fight back against he regime. thats how putin has been using force without resistance internally.
also includes doxxing, and hacking thier personal info and releasing it.
I hope our elite furry hacker friends are on the case. Never made enemies of the furries.
he likely got the same orders that schumer and jefferies got, not to get in the way of ice. behind close doors.
Did he say pretty please? That would be effective.
Tell him. Ask harder!
