Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi said Beijing cannot accept any country acting as the “world’s judge” after the United States captured Venezuela’s President Nicolas Maduro.
The world’s second-largest economy has provided Venezuela with an economic lifeline since the U.S. and its allies ramped up sanctions in 2017, purchasing roughly $1.6 billion worth of goods in 2024, the most recent full-year data available.
Almost half of China’s purchases were crude oil, customs data shows, while its state-owned oil giants had invested around $4.6 billion in Venezuela by 2018, according to data from the American Enterprise Institute think tank, which tracks Chinese overseas corporate investment.
And china are right in this case. They’re just also assholes
Marjorie Taylor Green posted about how invading Venezuela is a terrible idea.
I hate it when I agree with Marjorie Taylor Green.
It’s as good to agree as it is to disagree. It’s not good to disagree for the sake of it, so you’re doing good 😊
that’s perfect. chef’s kiss.
China is hypocritical as FUCK
They take Tibet, they take Hong Kong despite practically the entire island coming out to say no thanks, they threaten Taiwan every second day, and the only reason they haven’t taken Taiwan is because they wouldn’t have been able to hold it against the west
Now they see how weak Europe is and the nutter in command of the US, and their plans have accelerated, this is simply an opportunity to further push propaganda on something they were always going to do
On top of that I actually wouldn’t mind if we had a judge that aligns closer to American/Western values
China is literally right next to the totalitarian dystopian hellscape that is North Korea
Executions for watching south korean tv, 3 generations of jail as punishment for committing crimes
i would have no problems if even china which is not great even by itself could bring some sense to north korea
They’re also trying to erase the Cantonese Language from existence… 🫤
Yes, they are hypocritical but they are also right - a unilateral invasion like that is baaad:
.Edit: image is directed at China, not ikt.
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You know we’re talking about China right?
I have the right to expand about the topic of hypocrisy. What is the problem with calling out a genocide supporter hypocrite?
??? who are you?
Common mrdown L. Learn how to spell, buddy.
Ok language police. All i said is right . That guy is a big hypocrite and a genovide supporter. What’s your problem with what I said?
Even if so (I don’t know this user or their beliefs), what does that have to do with the current discussion? All I can see is you going full aggro against them completely unprompted. You addressed nothing about what they said, just immediately leaped to insults and accusations. The fact you didn’t bother checking your spelling just makes you look like you saw this user and just went off on them without a second thought out of anger. This is something I have seen you do time and time again.
Did you reply to the wrong comment?
Yikes chill a little… You actually believe that nonsense about North Korea?
The nonsense about the dictatorship in North Korea?
I think they’re wrong. Their statement is basically that international law is meaningless and that they’re free to wage war without consequences.
This was probably their endgame from the beginning, since they promoted and helped reelect Donald Trump. If it came out that Trump, Maduro, Putin, and Xi Jinping all conspired to make these events happen, I would not at all be surprised.
You’re getting downvotes but it might be because some people are surprised that Xi Jingping would support Trump but I’ve gathered some evidence it might be true.
For starters we look at TikTok. Regarding TikTok this article is the most damning: https://www.theinformation.com/articles/how-tiktok-courted-conservatives-before-trumps-win (archive/non-paywall: https://archive.is/TUjo9)
The top leaders pushed through content moderation changes that made TikTok more accepting of some conservative views on the fairness of elections or transgender rights, including by updating policies on banned content or enforcing them differently.
I hate the way they worded that. What they really mean is allowing the big lie (false claims the 2020 election was rigged) and transphobia.
See: https://www.theverge.com/politics/656717/trump-tiktok-ban-maga-influencers (archive link: https://archive.is/DMOLf)
MAGA influencers also view TikTok as a relatively reliable platform to publish pro-Trump content without fear that their accounts will get demonetized, restricted, or worse, deactivated.
Also see: https://www.foxnews.com/politics/maga-republicans-defend-tiktok-conservative-platform-fate-hangs-balance-supreme-court (archive link: https://archive.is/RGBC8)
“Trump won the election because he listened to first-time voters like myself and joined TikTok to get his message to us directly,” RNC Youth Advisory Council Chair Brilyn Hollyhand told Fox News Digital of the impending ban.
President Donald Trump “pleaded” with China’s Xi Jinping during a 2019 summit to help his reelection prospects, according to a scathing new book by former Trump adviser John Bolton that accuses the president of being driven by political calculations when making national security decisions.
Then we cannot forget about all the Chinese bots who post online. “China is pushing divisive political messages online using fake U.S. voters” https://www.npr.org/2024/09/03/nx-s1-5096151/china-tiktok-x-fake-voters-influence-campaign Says it very clearly. They used the same strategy Russia did.
Also, TikTok voluntarily went offline right before the ban’s due date, but then went right back online thanking Donald Trump 14 hours later without Trump having to do anything. I’ve also seen how they treat Donald Trump on the other psyops like Hexbear, he was the favored candidate by far for Tankies.
I think I know what you’re talking about! The people who pretend to be “far-left”, socialist or communist but for some bizarre reason they keep supporting Russia.
I had an experience with one of those people recently. I asked one of those people point blank do you support Trump and they completely dogged the question. Clicking on profiles of these types of people I notice they also never denounce Trump or Republicans or do so very rarely.
I actually deeply regretfully used to be somewhat of a Trump supporter so now I’m very sensitive to people who may be secretly Trump supporters or those who have similar characteristics. Those “tankie” type people really peg my MAGA-meter. It’s almost like when someone has an abusive ex they tend to notice certain things more afterwards (I wish I could word this sentence better but hopefully people can understand).
Ultimately what makes tankies and MAGA similar even if they are not secretly supporting Trump or a bot is belief persistence when there is contrary and reputable evidence and belief in conspiracy theories. Part of what helped me escape MAGA is media literacy and realizing that if someone presents reputable information that contradicts what I believe, I should change my beliefs not plug my ears and regurgitate conspiracy theories based on some random comment like a screenshot of a screenshot of a 4chan post or just saying nonsense like “I don’t trust the MSM”.
China shares an interest with Russia in weakening the US and Europe.
putin was quite happy to declare this multipolar law-free world. I hope he at least enjoys it, because I won’t.
Well, international law is meaningless. As trump has just shown us.
Iraq was long before tramp
At least with Iraq the US pretended to be following international norms. The presented lies to the UN to justify their actions, they gathered allies into a “coalition.”
I can’t believe how you make their point better for them.
It was always a farce.
Fuck the US.
And Putin with Ukraine. And Xi with Hong Kong.
Were you expecting the consequences to be instantaneous? Like, what, simultaneous nuclear strikes in retalliation?
Even if proceedings started immediately there wouldn’t be changes to trade for weeks at a minimum and no sentencing for months or even years, but honestly proceedings aren’t likely to start until the individuals responsible lose political power.
Sanctions against US like the ones against Russia.
And China. Yes.
In spite of many of its economic and military misadventures, China hasn’t invaded anyone as of yet.
That distinction is still important or else v shud sanction every country.
China is occupying Tibet and Hong Kong and claiming it owns Taiwan as well. It also frequently sends warships through seas owned by the Philippines where it has been illegally fishing and destroying Philippines fishing vessels. A couple of weeks ago Chinese authorities refused an Indian passport because they claimed that part of India belonged to China.
Also, China waged war on it’s own people in Tienanmen Square.
well not invaded anyone of recent. the last official one would be the short one in vietnam after vietnam ended the Khmer Rouge. this of course was nearly half a century ago though, so a lot of poeple online wouldn’t recall it because it wouldn’t be part of their generation.
China is already sanctionned. There is no sanctions on the United Snakes
Welcome to the discussion. Glad you’re all caught up. Be sure to check for updates after more than 2 days have passed, likely 2 to 3 weeks.
If it came out that Trump, Maduro, Putin, and Xi Jinping all conspired
I think it’s more likely that Trump asked what he could get away with regarding seizing a bunch of money from another country, and Venezuela was a low-risk, high-reward.
Why? Maduro is such small beans compared to them? It’s low hanging fruit.
The point is, as China is illustrating, that if every world power does what they want then international laws don’t apply to any of them, as a way to justify their current occupations and use of force as well as future invasions.
They’re saying “the world won’t protect you, ao why protect the world?”
Not as much as America tho.
People often forget all the countries America has bombed and destabilized in the past.
Worse, a “world judge” that doesn’t accept the jurisdiction of the International Criminal Court.
“We make the rules, but rules don’t apply to us.”
Even going so far as planning in details how to invade the International Criminal Court, if it ever dared to prosecute one of their soldiers for, say, murdering children in the streets.
That sounds an awful lot like Wilhoit’s law, which I find myself referring to quite often lately.
Wilhoit’s law:
Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.
edit: So the US is the rich conservative of the world stage. Super. I love seeing the news every day and wondering if any more of these maga morons are going to finally have their “are we the baddies?” moment. /s
If only they said the same about Ukraine and Taiwan
They did. The statement is “it cannot accept countries acting as ‘world judge’” meaning countries also cannot judge them, that’s exactly what China is claiming.
Americans don’t even know all the countries America has annexed in the past. Hawaii, Puerto Rico, Guam, Cuba. But you guys are obsessed with Taiwan. Free these countries first then have an opinion about Taiwan.
Whataboutism. I can criticize the actions of past and present Americans AND criticize the actions of China. Bad things the US has done doesn’t give a free pass to China to do bad things.
It kind of does. It’s called shifting the overton window.
2000 years ago, Isaac married Rebekah when she was only 3 years old. King David married Abishag when she was 12. Pedophilia was common back then so everyone was doing it.
You are just full on CCP ain’t ya. Share your thoughts on Tiananmen Square.
Care to share your thoughts?
For anyone that thinks otherwise I guarantee this opens the door for China to begin their assault on Taiwan.
I’m not so sure it does. China is openly arguing against Trumps logic here, and the US just did demonstrate their military is still highly effective. The US seventh fleet hasn’t moved away from Taiwan, and Trump is clearly signalling he intends to keep China down.
I’d argue Xi is not happy Trump decided to actually do something like this, because it increased the risk of his plans with Taiwan as well now that the US is openly hostile and MAGA cheers it on.
China needed him to keep up the whole peace pretense and for MAGA to stay on board with that. Now that that’s gone, Trump has cleared the way for more military intervention.
MAGA is actually currently having a bit of a crisis of confidence. One of the promises Trump made was to stop the empire building and international interference. Now he’s going around causing an international incident every 45 minutes.
He has gone from saying that it was a single strike, to threatening more strikes against Venezuela, to threatening yet other countries in the last 24 hours.
The thing about bootlickers is that they love licking boot. As long as we’re winning and not losing, they’ll obediently fall in line. If things turn to shit, like it did in Iraq & Afghanistan, they’ll pretend they were always against it.
A random Xitter account crying foul isn’t a sign of widespread crisis of confidence. Only 6% of Republicans don’t approve of the Maduro kidnapping. His approval rating went up a bit since the kidnapping (38% -> 42%).
His base, by and large, support the warmongering.
cult members gotta cult
In the USA, this is known as the “old switcheroo”.
Our politicians are infamous for doing the exact opposite of their platform.
For example, Reagan ran on sealing the borders and isolationism, only to declare amnesty for border hoppers and revel in international intervention.
Biden ran on increasing the minimum wage and other working class American concerns. Did he do this? No.
Our major parties aren’t actually concerned with their platforms, that’s performative.
and the US just did demonstrate their military is still highly effective
hmmmm sucker punching Venezuela here is not the flex you seem to think it is
the USA loves to bat weaker military powers around but they have been shown to be crushed by peasants in the long run…
In a matter of hours the US kidnapped the president of Venezuela, from his house on an army base, taking zero casualties. I don’t think there’s many militaries around that can beat that. It’s not the same as capturing Putin or Xi, sure, but it’s no trifle either.
you’ve never been to Venezuela, have you?
How many other heads of state do you remember being kidnapped from their palace, like from anywhere?
Of course Venezuela is no China or Russia and doesn’t compare to the US military, but they did have fairly modern Russian-made AA installations, all of which were successfully disabled or destroyed. And again: zero casualties.
You expect the operation would be successful, sure. But not as perfectly executed as it was.
How many other heads of state do you remember being kidnapped from their palace, like from anywhere?
how many have been tried?
Which is the point, it’s rarely tried because it’s very risky and unlikely to succeed or achieve your goals. The US military however was capable enough.
From China’s perspective (and in theory, Taiwan’s perspective), invading Taiwan isn’t the same, because they both officially recognize One China, they just disagree about who’s in charge.
It would more akin to USA invading Puerto Rico, if the governor of PR asserted that they were in fact the proper leaders of the USA.
China also knows that other countries don’t exactly share that perspective. And it certainly won’t persuade Trump to not continue his anti-China policies.
China claims Taiwan is theirs. Invading their own country to free it doesn’t really need any extra motive (even if there is) like what Trump needed, and is not playing world police.
Oh, so the US should have claimed Venezuela was US property, then they aren’t playing world police!
this is how things work, and some people seem incapable of understanding that.
You exercise a given power, and it gives others justification to use power in the same way. Laws be damned, the motivation is there.
100% agree, also China’s outrage is in name only. They provided 1.6 Billion in relief in the form of buying oil lol.
And now I’m agreeing with China.
Thanks, Trump.
China is an authoritarian dictatorship that tramples human rights and treats its citizens like resources and speed-bumps and treats “free speech” as the joke it actually is.
All that said, they are pulling ahead on the world stage by miles. We don’t see it in the US because again… freedom of speech isn’t real, media is filtered, but if you travel you see whole other angles on the entire planet and just how much we don’t get shown.
For example, you rarely see news about it, but China has launched 3 space stations in the time it took us to make just the documentaries about the ISS and how huuuuge of an accomplishment it was for the world. They are going to be launching probes and setting up smart, realistic goals for exploring the solar system. That’s just not the kind high-tech, ambitious, modern project that we associate with our stereotypical imagery of China that we get fed here, but if you actually walk around in any of their new cities you will feel a distinct, sinking sensation that we’ve already lost.
Is bombing other countries, killing civilians and installing puppet leaders not a violation of human rights?
Two things can be true at once
Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones at others.
Kay, I’m not chinese or american, so, both the us and china do horrendous things. It’s not a shittiness competition
As an American I can say that the US and China are both bad…
It’s like saying a slap on the wrist vs shooting someone with a gun are equally bad.
I think you’re missing a lot of US History in your knowledge base. The US have committed atrocities for centuries. Are you forgetting the genocide of native americans? Slavery? All the meddling in Latin America and southeast Asia? This is just some of the bigger examples.
No that’s just freedom, freedoming places that needed to be freedomed. Oohrah.
Alright. The US acted like crap. Therefore nobody is allowed to criticise China.
Because of the US, we are not allowed to speak about the Uyghur KZs in China.
Because of the US, we are not allowed to criticise China for unlawfully occupying Tibet.
Because of the US, we are not allowed to criticise China for not respecting Taiwans sovereignty.
Do you understand how hollow you sound?
Americans still associate China with shit quality merchandise while glossing over that that merchandise is made shit quality because American Importers selected that level of quality and completely ignoring that they make I Phones and other High quality tech.
This is absolutely right and a good point that I think a lot of people really don’t get. China isn’t filled with the cheap shit we get from China, they have a thriving middle-class, they have luxury goods the likes of which westerners haven’t dreamed of. They have quality standards for goods and services probably higher than most places.
It’s just that since we get their cheap dollar-store merch and we read stories about traditional Chinese medicine, we get the picture here that they’re still largely a backwards, “3rd-world” nation of rice farmers and peasants. It would be like judging the entire US on a sampling of people from the mountains of Appalachia.
Related, but I also find it hilarious when people reference China as “communist” in any capacity.
Three what now? Do you mean three modules for one station? Or three consecutive stations, one testing technology for the next? E.g. a short time station, e.g. a crew vehicle? I am only aware of one station, Tiangong. Do I have to do another web search? :(
There’s just the one.
It can only house three people.
Yeah, that is what I thought. Still, I was impressed when they launched it as announced.
He may have meant one space station and some extra moon missions or something? They have been popping off a fair bit.
Honestly, I don’t care what country dominates and wins the space race, i will just be impressed that we don’t kill each other trying.
I would prefer for it to be an international cooperation - but we’re just fucking this up big time :/
I feel like that astronaut ‘always-has-been’ meme would drop pretty hard right now
The current monster they have completed in 2022, Tiangong, was the third in a series of stations, the previous Tiangong-1 and Tiangong-2 stations were mostly meant to test technique and technology but were remarkable achievements in their own right. They currently have the largest and most active space program in the world. I didn’t even touch on their lunar program, their heavy satellite capability and their list of recent and upcoming solar-system probes.
- I don’t think monster is an appropriate word for a space station.
- so yeah, Tiangong-1 & -2 were single vehicle modules for technology evaluation. Similar to Skylab in concept (single launch, test docking technologies & crewed missions)
- as impressive as the Chinese space program is, the ISS is substantially bigger. Sadly, the world has not gotten their shit together in time for a follow-up station, and Gateway is pretty much dead-at-conception.
Oh the ISS is definitely bigger than anything ever sent to space, as I would expect from an international project that was built by a coalition of countries in better days, but it doesn’t really compare to China’s long-term goals and plans that have been on schedule. China is absolutely dominating space right now and will be into the future unless the US just suddenly gets it shit together and elects people who care about science and exploration, and even then it will take many years or decades now to undo the damage that trumpism has done to the US’s global leadership in space science.
The ISS is going to be deorbited in 2031, and I am not expecting a bigger, newer project to replace it. At this point I am not expecting to have access to health care broadly in 2031 in the US.
No argument there. China definitely has the better and more advanced space program. The ISS might get extended again if it doesn’t break and once people realize there is nothing comparable ready by 2030/31, but yes, eventually, there will be no international nor western space station in orbit for the foreseeable future.
China is an authoritarian dictatorship that tramples human rights and treats its citizens like resources and speed-bumps and treats “free speech” as the joke it actually is.
if you switched “China” to “The USA” in this sentence, I would have to find details to see if the scale is different but both do exactly the same
Yep. There is no government that actually serves the people, governments serve self-preservation and they tend to do heinous shit to succeed at that. We are not an evolved species but really only because we lack the will to be better broadly.
As individuals we each have vast capacity for learning, caring and understanding the world around us. As a generalized population we are a liquid that flows to the lowest point and erodes everything it touches.
I agree… but my point here is that it does not matter it was China who said “x”, in this instance “x” is right and people are dismissing it because “cHiNA” but the reality is that every country, powerful enough, acts pretty much the same so I am attempting to split the source from the message
All this time you’ve been agreeing with a terrorist organisation, you just didn’t know it.
What do you think of China‘s Invasion of Korea and Vietnam around the same time?
Invasion of Korea lmao. The north had democratic elections, the south had a sham election that resulted in an administration which put people who’d colluded with the japanese back into power, and the US was literally murdering anyone left of Syngman Rhee as a prelude to taking the rest of the peninsula.
Whatever you think about Korea now, China was absolutely fighting for the liberation of its people.
The sino-vietnamese war was 25 years later, and a much more legitimate criticism of China’s foreign policy.
How about Kuwait?
I assume you mean when Saddam, with the US’s weapons and blessing, invaded Kuwait, then was shocked the US betrayed their old friend?
If so, I have absolutely no idea how its relevant to China.
Was from a comment up a bit.
Also Wat? US blessing of the invasion?
Sanction them then?
“cannot accept” = asking them nicely to stop. It’s a nothing burger
Diplomats do not speak the same language as you and I sitting around sipping beer and bullshitting. In diplomatic terms that means, “We’re pissed off, though we’re not taking immediate action. Keep going, FAFO.”
No, this amounts to “Please stop you’re dismantling our client state, we can’t actually stop you though.”
China will do something better, replace the dollar as the reserve currency. That will result in the fall of America crushed by its own debt, same reason Britain fell.
The US dollar is used for 53% of the world’s reserve currency. China’s Renminbi is 2%. It’s a fun thought, but no. If anything, the Euro at 18.4% has a better shot.
Britain ruled more than half of the globe at its peak. No one thought it would ever fall. But here we are.
No one would have imagined Chinese cars dominating the world 10 years ago, but here we are.
Don’t look at where they are, but where they’re going.
I never said USD won’t ever fall. Holy shit, you guys can’t read. Your love for China absolutely blinds you.
Your gate for China absolutely blinds you. You have no idea how much CIA has propagandised you.
The internet was invented by the American military. You don’t think they would use it to influence you?
I am fully aware of how horrible the US government is. If you weren’t so blinded by your own misguided passion, you’d have seen that.
lol, if you’re not chinese, wealthy, and in the party you’re not in the club.
If you’re not ultra wealthy you’re also not in the club today, so i’m sure you won’t see much of a change between one regime and another, unless you’re an ‘undesirable’ that comes to find yourself in the sphere of influence of china anyway.
I don’t care about being rich, I just want the terrorist empire to fall
Hey we can knock off all the big empires and let the cartels take over. Get beheadings, stonings and other crude execution methods back in the civilized world. Bring us all down to the same level.
We can have women accused of whatever bullshit and get the rape gangs going. I hear it’s all the rage in Pakistan.
Maybe we can get Maduro in there so that he can send his goons in to rape anyone who speaks out against his rule. They don’t care if you are a man, woman, adult or child- but this is a thing that happens to those who are against him. Have you asked any Venezuelans about that before?
I don’t think what the US does is right. I just envision the world you are pushing for. It’s horrific. Even more so than the billions suffering every day today.
Would be nice if enough normal, kind people banded together and started a world government with some teeth… but human nature is to take advantage for oneself. It’ll never happen. Once we’re extinct maybe the next intelligent life will succeed where we failed. It’s a kill or be killed world as long as humanity is in charge.
according to data from the American Enterprise Institute
Don’t ask who pays their bills
While I agree you always need to look at who is saying what and what their motivations are, China has been investing in Venezuela, just as they have in many other countries.
Investing in Venezuela instead of sanctioning them until they bow to your will? Terrible.
The largest outside investment in Venezuela has come from California based multinationals. China’s a very recent entrant into the Venezuelan market, owing in large part to the rising tide of US sanctions that prevents western businesses from doing the kind of trade they were already enthusiastic about.
Incidentally, the American Enterprise Institute operates as a lobbyist on behalf of many of those California businesses.
Nobody is crying wolf here, this is just a statement of imports and exports based on publicly available data giving context to China’s interests in the region. Is admitting that China works for their own geopolitical interests too much for you? We’re now down to dismissing public customs and OPEC data because engaging in foreign economic interests is a little too close to American imperialism for comfort?
The anus calling the butthole an asshole situation here.
China is nowhere near a terrorist as America.
Every regime change America has done in another country and installed a puppet, their economic situation never improved under the puppet leader.
They’re both pretty shit tbh. But also, Tiennamen Square lol
You’re gonna compare one bad thing done by China to hundreds done by America and claim both are equally bad lmao
More of a joke, really. Both countries have committed countless atrocities.
Fucking lol, with this sino propaganda.
Stfu cia shill
How exactly am I a CIA shill? This is the kind of shit that makes people not take you seriously at all.
“Everyone must be a shill because they disagree with me!!”
I’m equally critical of both the US hegemony as well as that of China’s.
I’m saying China hasn’t bombed nearly as many countries as America. Yet China is evil and America good.
Take a moment to understand what you’re arguing here. China not bombing an equal number of countries (according to you) as the US does not absolve the PRC of their sins simply because you are comparing them to another imperial power. This is, like, textbook false equivalence.
You still haven’t answered exactly how I’m a CIA shill, btw.
China and America are the two biggest economies and armies of the world. It’s a fair comparison. Soon the world will have to choose between America and China.
It’s not “according to me”. History is proof of America’s terrorism. China hasn’t bombed a single country in over a century.
It would appear that the US got tired of all the jokes comparing them to the movie Idiocracy, so they decided to make themselves into Team America: World Police instead.
All of this has happened before. All of this will happen again.
:(
Found the Cylon.
No toasters in these parts, my fellow biological human.
I mean…that’s why that movie was made to begin with…
Trey Parker and Matt Stone should make the movie free for the week in honor of Team America World Police being back in action.
Swap police with gangsters and i agree.
We agree, so let’s discuss the Chinese police stations in countries that are clearly not China.
Let’s discuss the American military bases in countries that are clearly not America.
At least the host country agreed to those
There’s real things to criticize, why pick something stupid?
Yeah… Maybe ask the good folks of Okinawa whether they have ever agreed to American military bases.
You can’t tolerate the intolerant, Japan lost WWII and had to be demilitarized. It’s one thing to advocate for Remilitarize Japan, it’s another thing entirely to ask their proxy military to leave them defenceless.
Ahahah. The host country agreed to those. That’s priceless…
same way I agree to give up my wallet when getting mugged?
Hard power is often leveraged by state actors to coerce agreement / consent. It doesn’t necessarily invalidate consent but it certainly obscures it.
After WW2 Japan and Germany, for example, were not in a position to say no to US bases. I wouldn’t consider that legitimate consent.
Agreement under duress isn’t really agreement
Sweet summer child
Unless it’s China whose the judge, of course. They seem to find no issue judging the Uygurs as needing to die and Taiwan as their property, or the the South China Sea as their waters, or all the fish in the world as theirs to make extinct.
or supporting Russia judging Ukraine, also totally ok.
different from other imperialists nations, how?
They seem to find no issue judging the Uygurs as needing to die
Are they killing Uyghurs by the millions or teaching them Mandarin?
So much of the hysteria around China seems to stem from domestic campaigns of infrastructure development. The Three Gourges Dam, the rapid expansion of urban infrastructure, development of schools and hospitals in the historically rural corners of the country, expansion of universities, trade with East Africa, the BRI - all described as brutal forms of colonial oppression by a savage and sadistic Far-Left Totalitarian Communist government.
Nobody described Bolsonaro’s Brazil in these terms, as his administration clear cut the Amazon and rapidly displaced tens of thousands of migrants. Nobody described The Phillipines or Indonesia this way, even as Red Tagging was used as an excuse for vigilante executions and toxic dumping sent cancer rates stratospheric. Hell, its hard enough to get Israel described in these terms in any major western publication of record, and they’re outright shooting children in the head before labeling them “Hamas Terrorists”.
Why are liberals so eager to re-characterize literacy programs as a form of holocaust? Why do they seem so gleeful at the prospect of a China-Taiwan hot war? Why do we have a President threatening to invade Venezuela, Nigeria, and Greenland all at once, while his biggest “critics” complain that he’s not bellicose enough?
Fucking wild times.
This also gives justification to North Korea. They’ve been arguing for ages that they should be allowed nuclear weapons because otherwise the US would come in and force a regime change, and now Trumpsky has just handed them the evidence.
All that NK artillery was the real deterrent. Before NK developed Nukes, after the cold war the US could have relatively easily crushed them except for the incredible amount of collateral damage they could have done to SK. However, in the post Ukraine/Trump presidency age, securing a stock of nukes or joining a defense coalition that includes at least one member with nukes seems like the wise decision. Heart breaking really.
The US could also have easily crushed the Vietnamese./s
Well… yeah, we could have.
If war was literally as simple as “kill the other person and damn the consequences” the US could have casually wiped out the viet cong at pretty much any point during the war. The political consequences for doing so were the limiting factor - an extreme example, but we could have just nuked north vietnam to glass and been done with it (and obviously that wasn’t a realistic option (despite the number of times some psycho general or the other tried to advocate for it)).
If war was literally as simple as “kill the other person and damn the consequences” the US could have casually wiped out the viet cong at pretty much any point during the war.
They tried that towards the end, sending B-52s to carpet bomb Hanoi. Dozens of planes were shot down, hundreds survived, thousands of civilians were killed. If the US continued, they would have managed to kill hundreds of thousands of civilians, but eventually they’d run out of planes before the Vietnamese ran out of people or willingness to defend themselves.
You all act like we didnt already have dozens of nukes at that ppint and couldnt straight up glass the entire country. It wasnt capability that stopped the US is was political willpower or lack there of.
They escalated, yes - absolutely not denying that. But the point was that they didn’t just nuke the city. Winning was important, but there was a point that the consequences of winning were deemed to outweigh the victory itself.
“we coulda won but we just didn’t feel like it.”
Not a very convincing argument.
That’s an oversimplification to the point that it really doesn’t represent my argument at all, though. But to treat with what you said, I’m not sure how
The US didn’t “feel” like winning the war was so important it justified nuking north vietnam
is a bad representation of the situation? The US didn’t drop sarin on the ho chi minh trail, nor did they nuke Hanoi, mobilize full wartime production, draft the “desirables” etc. Politics are a massive part of any war. “An army marches on it’s stomach” isn’t simply a literal adage about the importance of supplies.
The key difference, for those unfamiliar with Asia or history, is that South Korea is a cohesive modern nation with a competent military and a strong sense of national identity that feel genuine friendship with the US (for now at least). All things that weren’t true about South Vietnam.
South Korea was essentially invented by the US in 1947, it took trillions in investment, and decades of propaganda+imprisoning/killing everyone left of Sygmon Rhee to create the nation of South Korea…
I think you’re giving the US way too much credit here. They helped south korea establish itself with a massive investment, but they didn’t “invent” the country, and its pretty insulting to south koreans that you’re so willing to take away their agency in the matter.
There literally was no South Korea, just Korea before the US drew a line on a map.
if i remember correctly, the north koreans also had a role to play in drawing that map, seeing as how the north korean army was pushed all the way north to china’s border.
How is that pertinent to whether or not the US had the capacity to best NK militarily in the 90s?
They must’ve not watchec this completely true documentary.
The other day i was explaining my (teenager) kids how it was in the early 2000s and instead of a history lesson, i watched this with them. One of the best summariesof that age.
Imagine how much Freedom™ costs now with all the inflation?
All we know is: it isn’t free :)
China should dump all of its U.S. treasuries
Wait, didn’t they just say it was a good template for Taiwan?
That’s Chinese social media.
they are pumping out propaganda hard right now, it’s everywhere
That’s not from official statements, I believe, but what posters are saying on social media. China heavily controls social media, so it’s not a stretch to say that if the posts are not being removed en masse, then they tacitly approve.
They may just allow it to promote nationalism, even if they don’t have any intention of acting. Taiwan is certainly inching towards increasing danger since Ukraine, Gaza and now Venezuela has had minimal blowback. Russia has had sanctions but much less than required to hurt significantly.
if we lose ukraine and taiwan that’s two more countries going back towards tbh straight under dictatorship rule, 2 losses for the west and democracy
i don’t understand why europe is being so quiet on taiwan, i can only assume they want to keep the good times coming with cheap chinese goods
Yeah after losing the US to dictatorial rule, I dunno if the West can take any more losses.
i don’t understand why europe is being so quiet on taiwan
Europe is far from Taiwan, has little in the way of Naval Assets or Territorial Possessions nearby to even be relevant in a war, and frankly has their hands full closer to home.
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