When having to admit their fault the moderator started looking for arbitrary reasons to ban me. Such as not using the exact terminology of the Amnesty report. Which does not call it genocide.
The moderator is also watching user votes, and calling out people not voting with him.
Seeing how Goat tried to ping db0 because they voted in the thread to drag them into debate, I’m gonna go with PTB on this one.
If they wanted to prove their point, they should have given links that proved their point.
Never mind that anarchists are explicitly anti-authoritarian, apparently db0 is a tankie now? Lol, yep checks out. Those twatwaffles think a “tankie” is anyone who is critical of the Dems, or of US foreign policy. OPs comments were also accurate imo regarding China’s influence in Myanmar being a much stronger example of Chinese imperialism.
The libs have got some nerve getting hysterical about the Uyghurs when they obviously couldn’t give two shits about their own government (and their own party) continually voting to keep supplying weapons to Israel in order to continue its genocide in Gaza. Has China been shitty and authoritarian towards the Uyghurs? Yes, no doubt. Is it a genocide of the type and scale that Israel is currently waging? Absolutely not.
PTB
didnt u ban me from a community for no reason
For “violating the disengage rule” so no, not for “no reason”.
Rule is kinda hard to find. The link to the anarchist code of conduct appears to be broken. I checked the rules before but missed the code of conduct for the instance.
Fair enough. Lmao.
Tell me about this disengagement rule, sounds rather interesting
Love what?
Can you go into more detail? I know Pug’s had some awful experiences with db0’s instance, but they’re banned and can’t share that, which I find highly suspect
Stop shitstirring. This post is about your shitty behavior, not my mod actions.
My shitty behaviour?
How so? Was the OP not violating the rules?
Or are you admitting that this community isn’t actually about moderator misconduct but instead a way to attack others based on their views?
The shitty behavior was pinging an instance admin in an unrelated thread to accuse them of being a tankie for downvoting a comment. And what’s also shitty imo is claiming that folks who think the whole Uyghur genocide in China is massively overblown by the West are all tankies. It’s entirely possible to believe China is a hugely authoritarian State and also that the Uyghur “genocide” claims are mostly overblown and misrepresented by the West. I’m no China fan, but they certainly aren’t bombing the shit out of the Uyghurs or peppering civilians with grenades dropped from drones, like US-backed Israel is. You guys love the lesser evil argument, so to put it in a way you will understand: many folks think China is the lesser evil compared to the US, and that doesn’t make those folks tankies. It just means they recognise that the list of shitty things the US has done in the past 50 years far, far outweighs the list of shitty things that China has done in the same period.
If you read my comment, you’d know the reason why I pinged, which was to lead up to my complaint about this community. That this community isn’t actually about moderator misconduct but instead a way to attack others based on their views, or in my case, just making shit up about my views despite me clarifying what they are.
When it comes to atrocity, there’s no ‘lesser evil’ or justification or differentiation for it. There’s no excuse at all; that’s why they’re atrocities. I don’t care who they come from, if they hurt people, I don’t like them.
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I’m not banned, and the idea that I’m a compulsive liar is laughable. I guess it hurts that I come with receipts when I make claims?
Lol well you made me laugh.
What, did you find some more sexual assault and genocide to deny? I know that always amuses you.
Do you? You have OP who doesn’t believe in the inhumane treatment of the Uyghurs, Chinese imperialism or even the Holodomor. Should people be banned for lying?
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You should have a deeper look
Ban was fair. Misunderstanding on my part. I think the disengage rule, while hard to locate for the average newcomer, is a decent idea.
I was temp-banned. The only awful experience I had was the temp-ban, which was over the admins deciding that downvoting things you disagree with is, apparently, against the rules (when they want it to be).
Wait is that true? They banned you for downvoting?
Downvoting comments I disagree with was considered “downvote trolling”
Can you link the thread so we can read through it?
I had been avoiding !meanwhileongrad@sh.itjust.works for around a month. I had previously unsubscribed from it as it seemed to get a bit unhinged.
I had to go back there in the last few days for a post about Piefed default defederation list.
People pointed me out that !meanwhileongrad@sh.itjust.works doesn’t moderate comments such as
If it was russia or China starving people in Gaza, tankie roach would claim that “genocide isn’t happening”, “the BIA is seeding fake reports about starvation!” and “this is the best deradicalization program in history!”.
What a bunch of lying, disgusting degenerates.
https://sh.itjust.works/comment/20140833/
I reached out to the mod, he told me to tell the hexbear people to check their own comments as well https://hexbear.net/search?q=cockroaches&type=Comments&listingType=Local&page=1&sort=New
I found one comment equating democrats to cockroaches
If the democrats start breaking the rules right back at them it’s a whole new game they aren’t equipped to play. They might adapt, they’re cockroaches, but it could be a bridge too far. I think both sides are banking on the other side bluffing. But they themselves are bluffing.
https://hexbear.net/post/5850141/6412496
Maybe there needs to be another community to just report toxic users, with a diverse mod team, this two-way war (especially as both communities can’t talk to each other due to defederation/community ban) just seems turn into a long term conflict where all parts assume the worse of the other.
That piefed Hexbear defederation post is weird. They are basically arguing that defederating from Hexbear by default is not a block.
Devs should keep away from default blocks unless it is objectively illegal or spam. Imagine if the Lemmy devs started blacklisting sh.itjustworks by default. That would cause some outrage. But they see no problem doing it the other way around
The question boils down to: do you consider a default defederation list to be an inevitable block, or do you consider it a preset that can be easily changed afterwards, and should as admins should review their defederation list when setting up an instance anyway?
At first people thought it could not be avoided, and were relieved to learn it could easily be changed: https://lemmy.zip/post/47192425/21066707
For the context, what the change experience looks like for an admin
This is exactly how it works. I started a PieFed instance and made the decision (during setup) to trim the defederation list down to none. Users can block on the account level.
For screenshots and more details: https://wetshav.ing/comment/92409
A default block was what I assumed that meant. By default it is blocked, but it possible to unblock.
The major issue is that putting them on the blacklist by default: the admins need to make a conscious decision to unblock them. Which they will probably not do unless they agree with their views or enjoy their posts.
This gives easy plausible deniability to who wants to blacklist hexbear or lemmygrad. The partiality is far stronger than on Lemmy. Where we know the devs have certain political views but they do not force them upon anyone.
List of Piefed instances that currently defederate hexbear:
- https://piefed.blahaj.zone/ , the same way https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/ does
- https://piefed.world/, the same way https://lemmy.world/ does
- https://piefed.ca/, the same way https://lemmy.ca/ does
- https://feddit.online/, the same way https://fedia.io/ does (by the way, Fedia isn’t a software, it’s called Mbin, and doesn’t have such code, so not sure why you’re including them into your title)
- https://quokk.au/, it used to be the same when it was still a Lemmy instance
- https://piefed.europe.pub/, the same way https://europe.pub/ does
https://piefed.fediverse.observer/list
As you can see, instances defederating hexbear are instances managed by teams which were going to do so anyway, as they already did on Lemmy. I’m still waiting for an example of an instance that defederated hexbear “by mistake”.
Setting up an instance isn’t trivial, assuming that admins would revise the defederation list doesn’t seem realistic.
There are still a few instances that federate with hexbear, showing that the ‘baked in block’ is just a configuration change:
- https://piefed.zip/c/news@hexbear.net
- https://piefed.zip/instances?page=9&filter=federated&search=
- https://piefed.au/instances?page=6&filter=federated&search=
- https://anarchist.nexus/instances?page=4&filter=federated&search= , which is related to https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/, also federated with hexbear
The weirdest part of this ‘one-way federation’ drama is that it’s entirely self-inflicted. Why even run an allowlist if you’re not going to vet the instances you put on it?
Every time I see Hexbear mention .world it’s to call them Nazis, why on earth did they put piefed.world in their allowlist?
I don’t know. Seems like now they removed them, hopefully the whole thing is now settled.
Hexbear’s post is weird, acting like a blocklist is the same as hardcoding a “1-way defederation” as they try to frame it. They are such scummy manipulators.
Hexbear lying? Unheard of! Next you’ll tell me they’ll just make shit up in favor of their favorite red colored hellhole.
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I am the user you quoted in the first quote. Feel free to use my username directly with quotes about tankies being roaches and degenerates.
I stand by what I said.
I am from Ukraine, originally from Donbas no less.
It is just and correct (in the dictionary sense) to use the term degenerate when refering to tankies.
The tankie roaches don’t speak any local languages, have never been to Ukraine (Donbas or otherwise) or even russia and claim any and all atrocities committed by the russians are a CIA conspiracy. I even had a degenerate tankie claim that there is no problem with speaking Ukrainian in the occupied territories (when there are russian propaganda video openly celebrating how they catch Ukrainian speakers and send them to torture basements).
How is this not degeneracy?
Genocide is also the extermination of culture and identity, not just mass killings. Amnesty as an organisation tends be extremely conservative with their approach and language (for better or for worse).
In Ukraine, they had a report saying that the military should leave all cities. Comically stupid stuff. I am not saying this randomly, I have two military facilities near where I live (albeit one that’s really close is likely to be low priority for the russians). The leader of Amnesty Ukraine resigned over this report.
And considering the nature of MOG, it would be reasonable to expect a lower threshold for mod actions for tankie-adjacent content.
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I am not sure if this is the place to continue the discussion, but you are free to step up for the admin and find another respected human rights organisation which calls it a genocide. The admin had to concede because he could not.
While the definition of genocide is so wide that it encompasses basically any mass killing, it actually means trying to exterminate a ppoulation. Ukraine has also not started a genocide case against Russia at the ICJ for obvious reasons. Russia has an ICJ genocide case against Ukraine which it will probably lose.
admin
mod, not admin (same for your OP)
Good catch. Corrected.
I am pointing out that there are limitations to Amnesty’s approach. Not debate club stuff, but real issues.
You wouldn’t be this cavalier if you got to sent to a camp for going to a mosque in Xinjiang or if your wife or daughter got forcibly sterilized.
I can guarantee you that!
I would also not enjoy going waterboarding in Guantanamo bay.
If you have a link to any respected human rights organisation claim of genocide I am all ears. If not you should try to convince them, not me.
Why do you bring up waterboarding at Guantanamo Bay? Was a significant portion of an ethnic or national group sent to Guantanamo Bay? This has nothing to do with what we are discussing.
There is sufficient evidence of mass scale ethnic-focused crimes in Xinjiang. This is even referenced in the report from Amnesty you cited, is it not?
The use (or lack of use) of the term genocide does not negate these fact.
You’re coming extremely close to tankie-level whitewashing mass scale CCP crimes targeted systematically at an ethnic group.
Do you agree or disagree with the fact that the CCP has forced mass scale sterilisation of the Uighur community in Xinjiang?
Do you agree or disagree with the fact that the CCP has forced mass scale sterilisation of the Uighur community in Xinjiang?
I love how @IndustryStandard@lemmy.world gave up at this point.
I couldn’t do a better job myself.
Not sure if mass scale is the correct word but certainly many cases as documented by HRW in 2021 https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/19/break-their-lineage-break-their-roots/chinas-crimes-against-humanity-targeting
My point stands.
And now Goat has banned all db0 users because we hosted the place that called him out. PTB.
DB0 is officially a tankie server now.
According to them, because we don’t like when liberals don’t stop fascism, like we always have been. Shrug
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Bugger off, you fake leftist!
We’re the fake leftists for… [Checks notes] being banned because we called out someone’s actions that allow Nazis. Okay.
Nazis, Batzis, you don’t care about this.
This is an aesthetic thing for you.
You are completely disconnected from reality.
Sure mate.
You come across as an insufferable asshole in those posts.
I did not use a single insult in all my comments.
And here you are surpassing that in a single one.
Yeah, there are multiple ways to be an ass.
Indeed.
Like starting a whole community dedicated to harassing another instance and banning anyone who calls it out.
Yeah, except you didn’t do that you were engaging in genocide denial.
PTB for sure, this is blatant bad-jacketing and their behavior in this thread is also extremely hostile.
@imaqtpie@sh.itjust.works @kersploosh@sh.itjust.works @InEnduringGrowStrong@sh.itjust.works I’m not sure if this level of power-tripping or inter-intstance drama breaks any rules but just wanted to let you guys know that this is a thing since it’s a community on your instance which was the source of the drama and bannings.
YDI.
I wouldn’t want a “umm akshully” genocide denier around either.
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YDI, you should not have engaged in whatbousim, cherrypicking and then downplaying what the atrocities the uyghurs were facing.
While the followers of that community dwnnplay israel actions in palestine
Not at all, my obese, burger eating friend.
Imagine this; you can recognize the evil Israel is doing in Palestine and recognize the evil the Han Chinese are doing in Xinjiang.
Obese burger eating friend! Are you 5 yesrs old?
I saw many people defending israel and denying israeli genocide and the supermasist ideology used to do it
They and the db0 admins have doubled down in this thread.
It’s definitely not a good look for them.
I’d love to ping the tankies, like davels, diva and cowabee into the thread, but can’t due to defederation. You can do that if you want.
I wonder. Are the people from the comment chain below not responding to this chain due to defederation?
Lemmy.ml and SJW are still federated
Are you asking about Lemmy.ml?
Yes, they defederated from SJW
I wonder why?
They will never understand
Because tankies can’t handle questions or dissent
No, they haven’t, this is one of the weirdest things to lie about since you know anyone can go to https://lemmy.ml/instances and see the blocked section, and see that sh.itjust.works is not blocked.
The concession on a technicality that genocide isn’t explicitly alleged in Amnesty’s report (even if it references sources that do) does not give you a free pass to then violate the rules, which you clearly did after repeated warnings.
You received a 24h ban, which imo is justified given your rules violation. You were repeatedly given chances to walk back your rule violations, only to add more.
goats pinging of db0 was imo stupid behaviour. Admins are also users and there’s nothing that requires them to justify their voting behavior. Singling them out makes no sense. db0 also shouldn’t have engaged them in that thread. But goat did not abuse any mod powers or anything for this callout. Stupid as it is, it’s not them power tripping. Technically mentioning it is in violation of this community’s rules too:
Post only about bans or other sanctions that you have received from a mod or admin.
You were not the target of the callout, nor could the callout be considered a sanction or ban. Had goat banned db0 after the callout, that would have been PTB, but db0 would have to make the post.
YDI.
The source they refer to says it is not genocide but should be called by its actual name because it muddies te water. They proved my point.
I also just found out the mod is a massive Zionist and is still doing genocide propganda for Israel. https://lemmy.world/comment/19117021
You still don’t get it. goat conceded the point that the report doesn’t literally alledge genocide, but “only” serious human rights abuses targeted at a specific demographic.
But goat also says that focusing in on the exact verbiage is besides the point. Serious human rights abuses are serious human rights abuses. It muddies the waters and distracts from the core problem.
Up until this point, you hadn’t broken any rules. But after goat concedes the verbiage to you, he directly asks you to clarify that you do at least acknowledge the human rights abuses as alleged in the report.
You do, but immediately deflect by stating US and European imperialism is worse. Such relativist statements are against the rules, landing you the first violation. When warned and asked to condemn it regardless, you doubled down on the relativism and also denied the targeting based on ethnicity, which resulted in your 24h ban.
Any zionism or pro-Israeli propaganda is frankly irrelevant as it is entirely disconnected from the justification for your ban. I don’t need to like goat or agree with anything else he said (and I don’t, as already indicated), but you did violate the rules as stated and that’s ultimately what matters.
It’s 24 hours for a genuine rule violation, a fairly minor sanction even. You weren’t banned for challenging goat, and he didn’t abuse his mod powers to silence you for challenging him. Based on the rules, I would have banned you too.
YDI.
Just adding that seeing votes isn’t a mod-exclusive power. Anyone can see where votes come from
You can’t see downvotes if the instance blocks lemvotes
really? Where’s it say that? I was under the impression it works everywhere?
https://lemmy.zip/post/45324771
However, the developer of lemvotes has recently developed an “opt out” for instances that don’t want their user data collected in this way. So now we have a choice of whether or not to continue.
so how’s the opt-out works?
If I post in another instance’s thread, does that mean no one can see my votes?
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I was expecting this post, thank you.
To start, you were engaging in revisionism and apologia.
Apologia — (Using the Modern terminology for Apologia) No Defending, Denying, Justifying, Bolstering, or Differentiating authoritarian acts or endeavours, whether be a Pro-CCP viewpoint, Stalinism, Islamic Terrorism or any variation of Tankie Ideology.
Revisionism — No downplaying or denying atrocities past and present.
I’m fine if you have issues with genocide only being referenced three times in the amnesty report, but you also vehemently denied human rights abuses and the imperialism of current-day China, even arguing for a supportive imperialism, which there is no such thing. The Uyghurs are detained based on ethnicity, which is mentioned numerous times throughout the report – you denied this.
Your ban is temporary, 24 hours. All bans on meanwhileongrad are temporary and are always given after warnings.
This community
You’re also being disingenuous; dbo is not just ‘another’ user. They are the moderator of this snark community (and admin of the instance), which regularly interrogates moderator decisions or behaviour without actually caring if the user has violated the rules. This thread is an example of this. I knew you’d make this post because I’ve dealt with so many Tankies such as yourself that it’s become all very predictable
Which brings me to why I originally pinged db0 about how they vote. This is a perfect example of why I’m specifically holding this community and dbo to this special standard, or rather, the standards they hold others to. The OP, @IndustryStandard@lemmy.world, explicitly violated the rules despite being warned and despite many chances to explain their reasoning, so they received a ban (all bans are temporary on meanwhileongrad). Yet, despite this ban being justified, within the rules, and having received multiple warnings and chances, I am still a “Power-tripping bastard”-not on the basis of my moderation, but rather my views.
To illustrate this, I pinged db0 about their support for Tankies, much as this community pings moderators as to interrogate their personal views instead of the reasoning for the bans. You even conveniently left out the reasoning for why I originally pinged him; that’s bad form, and you’re being disingenuous again.
See, this community regularly interferes with the posts linked. Here are examples from across the thread:
And when moderators come in to give answers for the bans, they’re still attacked. I was pinged to explain why PugJesus messed up, which I did and fixed the mistake, but I was still attacked.
In this thread, no one actually goes into what rules were broken and why they were banned. (Not that I agree with @PugJesus@lemmy.world, I don’t agree with their moderation and have since removed them as Mod)
Pug doesn’t have a chance to explain their reasoning because the moderators here, specifically db0, regularly bans people and makes up rules.
“shut the fuck up liberal”
nice. imagine this community’s rage if “shut the fuck up tankie” appeared in modlog… owait, it did with Pug and this community predictably raised a fit about it… But silence when it comes to db0’s moderation.
Do admins have to be “apolitical” opinionless angels? @irelephant@lemmy.dbzer0.com
I answered No. But why do you, db0, and this community expect the same of moderators?
I also explained that !meanwhileongrad@sh.itjust.works is constantly brigaded and attacked as it is the only community that stands against Tankies across Lemmy and holds the developers of Lemmy accountable for their extremist views. We constantly encounter bots, spammers, alt accounts, trolls, and doxxers, so I need to be vigilant by regularly checking who’s interfering and from where.
However, I also regularly see members from this instance and from this community voting on comments and posts that are critical of tankies. When this is coming from the same users and community, that’s rather concerning.
To quote db0,
Maybe you should start holding your community to a higher standard – It’s being captured by tankies. And I’m sure you know the history of how communists treat anarchists lol
Because nothing says anarchy as much as “shut the fuck up liberal”
I don’t expect to reason with anyone from this instance or this community, but hopefully, those unfamiliar with this community, instance, and Tankies as a whole will appreciate the efforts.
thank you sincerely, this was a rare opportunity, shoutout to @blaze@lemmy.zip
I voted in those threads long before I knew this thread existed.
No. But why do you, db0, and this community expect the same of moderators?
I don’t really, where did I say that?
I pinged db0 about their support for Tankies
Support for tankies being a downvote on a post?
Should the OP have been banned?
Can you explain yourself doing genocide propaganda for Israel? https://lemmy.world/comment/19117021
You can ask me after your ban expires
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What of that is zionist propaganda, and can you prove that it is using entirely neutral sources?
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I can’t prove your claims, only you can do that.
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Why does the ban on another community justify not answering?
Because they were banned, not anymore now tho
Again, why does that justify not answering a question?
You must be very sad that you do not have the power to censor people who expose you for supporting the genocide of Palestinians over here. Like you do on your own pro-genocide community.
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Because I find extremists immensely interesting and have interacted with many of them, ranging from Christian fundamentalists to neo-nazis, to jihadists, to libertarians, to anti-vaxxers, to tankies. I like to challenge their views, and it’s also educational how these groups operate and how individuals fall into extremism.
I ended up getting banned from Voat to no surprise, which happened within days of voat opening. A year or two later, I made another account to see how the site was going, finding it was just one guy who spends the entirety of the day rambling to himself in the open chat client.
I don’t think these sites are around any longer and I expect lemmy to go down the same route soon.
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Do you not like that answer? Or are you implying I am one of them, or at least empathetic?
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Communists also have a long history of working closely with nazis, such as Stalin invading Poland along with Nazi Germany.
Nor have I said that I enjoy hanging out with extremists. Nor am I a liberal. Please don’t make such assumptions about me, and instead maybe directly ask me for my views or for me to clarify?
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On a slightly unrelated note: I had issues with the d0 admins not enforcing their “disengage” rule when a user was harassing me on their instance after I asked them to politely to stop engaging.
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Ditto
Yes however no action was taken. I had to block them oh well.
I appreciate the response ;)
Mind telling the admins who it was so they can moderate them for future rule breaking?
Edit: so that’s a no, you just wanted to stir shit.
I had flatworm ban me for two weeks for a first offence against the disengagement rule and I’ve never seen that before.
It felt personal.
I have the same experiences
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