The pace of violations, recorded since the city restricted turns at 97 downtown intersections, amounts to an average of about seven tickets per month.

Two pedestrian advocates told Mirror Indy they would like to see more enforcement, but city officials said the number of tickets issued is only one metric — and not the most indicative of success when it comes to pedestrian safety measures.

“Their desired effect was not to increase (the) number of tickets issued by IMPD. It was to ensure the safety of pedestrians and bicyclists in the Mile Square,” Vop Osili, the Democratic president of Indianapolis City-County Council, said in an emailed statement to Mirror Indy.

The policy change followed a study from the Indianapolis Department of Public Works that looked at a five-year history of pedestrian-related crashes in the downtown area. It found that 57% of were the result of vehicles failing to yield to pedestrians at intersections with traffic signals.

Data also showed that downtown pedestrians were more than twice as likely to be involved in a crash compared to pedestrians in the rest of Marion County.

Freeman, who was a city-county councilor from 2010 to 2016, argued that the policy would “create confusion and congestion” and “won’t stop distracted, reckless or aggressive driving.”

  • becausechemistry@lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    6
    ·
    8 months ago

    I live downtown (a stone’s throw from the monument), and most people seem to follow the rules. But not everyone does. Pretty easy to break them down into groups.

    • Big, usually black, SUVs and trucks
    • Vehicles with “thin blue line” stickers / police-supporting license plates / etc
    • Out of state license plates

    I think all but the out-of-town folks (who aren’t used to it and don’t notice the signs due to being overwhelmed with city driving and traffic) just go ahead and do whatever they want because of a “you can’t tell me what to do” attitude. Indy cops certainly don’t enforce the signs.

    The Indiana state legislature loves to dictate how Indianapolis governs itself. Refusing to comply with the signs is sort of a political statement to some, the equivalent of giving the finger to data-driven, progressive policy.

    • RedFoxOP
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      2
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      8 months ago

      Go insights, thanks.

      Ha, I’ll put myself down, being guilty of ‘don’t tell me what to do’ and driving. Not political though, I don’t see driving or city policy as D/R, or at least it shouldn’t be, that’s dumb 😋

      It wasn’t until I read why the signs were there that I understood.

      While walking/running, I just figured I always had to protect my self, and if people didn’t pay attention, the sign wouldn’t help me.

      • becausechemistry@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        11
        ·
        8 months ago

        This sort of thing should not be a left-right / progressive/conservative thing at all. Data says it prevents harm. Easy.

        But. When “city liberals” put policies into place, a contingent of those reactionary types feel it’s their duty to resist, no matter what. And their media engines convince their base of the same.

        Big trucks turning right on red in downtown is like the least impactful result of this sort of thing, but it’s a pretty obvious one.

        • gregorum@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          5
          ·
          edit-2
          8 months ago

          Where it becomes political is how the left and right approach government.

          The left thinks: what can government do to help the community? Data says banning turning on red reduces harm and fatalities to pedestrians!

          The right thinks: This new law is an inconvenient change for me. The government is in my way! (Although not in this case, they also tend to think: and I have to pay for it?)

        • MachineFab812@discuss.tchncs.de
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          8 months ago

          Honestly, “data-driven” is not enough, and no amount of signs will substitute for physical obstacles. Signs and “enforcement” are literally the pass-the-buck option for lawmakers, particularly in a city and state where the car-centric perspective took root early and deep.

          It’s extra-stupid, because Indy already has a lot of skywalks. They could expand that area with more skywalks and dedicated bike lanes(those streets are extra-wide as well, so bike-lanes with a curb or sidewalk between them and cars should be an option, as well as making the remaining car lanes squiggly)(hell, remove all but handi-capped parking while at it), or they can ban motor vehicles from tragetted areas entirely. The people who can’t be bothered to walk, bike or ride mass-transit in aren’t the target demographic, and allowing them to speed through won’t change that.

          Two other less-than-full, but still more effective than signs, measures are roundabouts or implimenting a full-intersection cross-walk cycle, where all the traffic lights switch to red to allow pedestrians and bikes to cross every which way. Make the pedestrian state last as long or longer than the total of all green-light states as well. Cars are the parties violating the space of others in these places, and should be forced to realize it.

          • becausechemistry@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            8 months ago

            I would love it if they closed off the circle and Meridian / Market in that center block and turn it all into pedestrian space.

            Then do it for the next ring of streets the year after. And another the next year. Keep going until you hit North, East, South, and West streets.

            You could still drive to the hospitals or the stadium or IUPUI. But the actual downtown would be paradise.

            • RedFoxOP
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              8 months ago

              I am going to pile on both of these comments with “heck yes”!

              I love roundabouts, and I really like the skybridge network around the government and convention center. It would be cool to keep that going like crystal city in DC.

        • BakedGoods@sh.itjust.works
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          8 months ago

          This sort of thing should not be a left-right / progressive/conservative thing at all. Data says it prevents harm. Easy.

          Conservatism is all about causing harm so this is absolutely a political issue.

        • RedFoxOP
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          8 months ago

          So you’re saying officials making something not political into something political?

          I’ve definitely seen people do things against common sense because of their party.

          Drinking bleach is dangerous…
          DONT TELL ME WHAT TO DO! 😆

    • GeminiFrenchFry@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      8 months ago

      I work downtown (CCB). I love these signs and that many drivers are following them. Crosswalks are safer, for sure. There are quite a few drivers who don’t follow the new signs, and those people suck.

  • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    6
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    8 months ago

    I honestly don’t think this is a bad idea for a lot of congested areas, although I would be interested in seeing statistics if there are any.

  • RedFoxOP
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    3
    ·
    edit-2
    8 months ago

    Anyone have experience in this area think this is working or not?

    I wondered why there we so many no turn on red all the sudden when the intersection was not visually blocked, but I hadn’t experienced the pedestrian safety issues.

    Personally, I have to make eye contact with the red turn drivers before I feel safe to cross.

    • Anyone live downtown?
    • Do you like it?
    • How does it compare to similar population/size cities you’ve lived?
    • ilinamorato@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      3
      ·
      8 months ago

      I live downtown. It’s somewhat better since the change.

      The fact is, the number one way to reduce pedestrian and bicyclist deaths is to slow down the cars. Study after study has proven this out. And preventing red light right turns is one way to do that. In a city center, that’s crucial; unfortunately, people who live outside the city are inconvenienced by this, so they complain to their politicians who make state laws and waste state resources dictating how Indianapolis can run its own business. And Freeman is the worst about it; for him, it’s all about sticking it to the “liberals.”

      • RedFoxOP
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        8 months ago

        As a commuter, I hate the parking limitations and costs.

        If I was a resident, I would hate people meddling in city business. Pretty easy to happen since state legislation is there.

          • RedFoxOP
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            8 months ago

            Actually, my wife and I still planning to use it for hotel tango trips so no driving and Uber is $50 round trip.

            I live in suburbs, and work outside of downtown, so I can’t really use it for visiting her at lunch.

            I want to support it though because that’s how we get the funds and politicals to not constantly try to shut it down. I thought it was cool idea. I heard tons of hate for taking lanes.

            You like it?

            • ilinamorato@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              8 months ago

              I love it, both as a rider and as a driver. Traffic isn’t as fast on College, but it’s way smoother. I didn’t feel like I’m about to sideswipe every car parked on the street anymore. And riding the Red Line is like a dream; closest to light rail we’re going to get with the current GOP stranglehold on state politics.

            • Ben Fulton@hoosier.social
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              8 months ago

              @redfox I’ve only used it a couple of times (I live and work in Bloomington and #ebike everywhere). I’d like to get in the habit of a park-and-ride from the south side when I visit Indy though.

              • RedFoxOP
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                8 months ago

                Thanks Ben. I think I still have to park in Broad ripple. Need the ride north to be long enough for me to get right to drive safe when I get there.

        • ilinamorato@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          8 months ago

          As a commuter, I hate the parking limitations and costs.

          I mean, I get it. But parking destroys downtowns by replacing destinations with car storage, which pushes the destinations further apart, which reduces the number of people who can walk to the destination, which requires more car storage. It’s a vicious cycle that can absolutely destroy downtowns, and has in a lot of places. So it’s bad for commuters, too. Just less visible.

          If I was a resident, I would hate people meddling in city business. Pretty easy to happen since state legislation is there.

          Yeah, it’s awful. And it keeps happening: Indianapolis votes for a thing. Freeman gets a bee in his bonnet about it—even though he doesn’t live here—and thinks he can makes some noise with it. Freeman gets the other Republicans to sign on to it, and invalidates the will of the people who actually live here. Then he takes a victory lap while the residents have to live with his meddling.

          • RedFoxOP
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            8 months ago

            One of the reasons I really like DC. You legit don’t need a car there.

            • ilinamorato@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              8 months ago

              We’re a pretty large family with only one car, which is about as close as we can be to that in Indianapolis. Bikes are awesome, and we’re close to a trail, so we can get mostly anywhere in the city we want to go in a reasonable amount of time.

              • RedFoxOP
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                2
                ·
                8 months ago

                Wow, you guys are rare I think. For here.

                I’m on call 24/7, so I have to be able to drive to work in x amount of minutes. I have to live within a radius too. My wife worked up in Lebanon before she was downtown. Couldn’t have even done one car.

                I really like walkable and bikable movement of late. Were only decades behind other parts of the world 😋

                • ilinamorato@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  8 months ago

                  Yeah, I think we’re probably fairly uncommon. Especially being single car by choice. Maybe someday it’ll be doable enough that we won’t be as unusual.

    • GeminiFrenchFry@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      8 months ago

      It’s working better, but not perfect. Most drivers I encounter downtown follow the signs. Crosswalks are safer because those turning right are at a stop waiting for their green instead of pulling up a bit into the crosswalk to look left for oncoming traffic. Some of the right turns downtown aren’t always easy rights due to parked cars or other items semi-blocking the line of sight. I have one office at the CCB and one on the circle, and I feel like these signs have definitely improved some of the traffic concerns around that area.

  • CptEnder@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    2
    ·
    8 months ago

    It’s interesting comparing, we have this in NYC as a citywide law so there’s no signs. My friend freaked when I took a right at a red like “you’re lucky you got away with that” when I first moved here. Apparently it’s very much enforced here and a moving violation like running a red. I had completely no idea about the law until then and never did it again. I think how much enforcement dictates if it’s followed or not.

    • RedFoxOP
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      edit-2
      8 months ago

      Edit: I’ve had driver’s training from contractors like you’d see in movies…I still wouldn’t want to drive in NYC 😋