The world isn’t on track to meet its climate goals — and it’s the public’s fault, a leading oil company CEO told journalists. Exxon Mobil Corp. CEO Darren Woods told editors from …
“Groundbreaking ‘Carbon Majors’ research finds 100 active fossil fuel producers including ExxonMobil, Shell, BHP Billiton and Gazprom are linked to 71% of industrial greenhouse gas emissions since 1988.”
This assumes they just make product and shove it back into the ground.
We use it. Our parents used it.
The only thing they’re guilty of is getting in the way of new development to greener tech, which is a massive thing, don’t get me wrong. Edit by get in the way I mean lobby to mask impacts and block changes, which is fucking terrible.
The EPA and NASA also knew about climate change but our governments were corrupt and lobbied by these guys. THAT is a problem.
But the fact that oil was processed and consumed is not a corporation’s fault, they produced it for customers. THAT PART ALONE is our fault.
If you use fuel, plastic etc, you’re part of the problem.
If you corrupt government and hinder progress you’re the source of the problem.
One is much worse than the other. EDIT BEING
THE SOURCE IS WORSE! consumers have skin in the game but corrupt government officials (who engaged with lobbyists are worse)
No, they don’t. They only have responsibility for their consumption.
Further, they only have responsibility for the consumption AND the damage that consumption causes, WHEN THAT INFO ISNT OBSCURED FROM THEM. These corps, and corrupt government hid that info in the name of profits.
I still don’t have access to good (more than 100Mbps) reliable internet service and as a consumer can do nothing to change that, how am I supposed to be able to expect a new electric vehicle fast charger in my area to cut back my emissions? Also that where I live I have no access to public transit, and am forced to drive everywhere.
I didn’t say you had much control, or are.the root of the problem. But all of us have skin in the game when we consume products that cause global warming.
Things like eating beef, using gas, using plastic products. I’m not saying you have an alternative, but nobody other than you is using the gas that you’re using.
The separate, bigger part of the equation is the corruption.
But if you admit that there are no alternatives then one more step down the chain would be to blame, ie the companies producing, and not providing alternatives… You’re so close and keep making points against what you then say is your conclusion.
I don’t entirely disagree. I’m not going to completely deny consumer responsibility, but I think it’s important to hold corporations much more accountable. My reasons are: sabotaging alternatives (this is huge), tons corporate money in politics (actively preventing change even if people want it), climate denial and false research (lying), and making sure everyone but themselves gets blamed when problems can no longer be hidden.
In the case of manufacturing, when environmental controls are implemented the corporations affected often just ship the work abroad. So even if citizens manage to make change in their own country the corporations just export the damage. You may say that people could just stop buying, and there is that aspect of consumer responsibility I’ve acknowledged. However, when all the options are bad it’s not realistic to say everyone should have forgone all cars, phones, or electricity produced by fossil fuels.
The general population has been deliberately denied information and agency to enact change. This latest statement in OP’s article is just a continuation of decades of corporate greed over truth and the environment.
My bad. Sometimes it’s hard to tell when you’re having a discussion via message board because nuance can get lost. I’ll edit that assumption out. Sounds like we’re on the same side.
Yeah, I heckin specified that. Good luck on developing responsibility and not just dealing with your problems but throwing them over the fence and name-calling.
Pretty immature behavior, but I know it comes from frustration of not being in control.
Here’s one to help you:
If you drive a large car, which are known to be very dangerous to pedestrians, and emit a lot of pollutants, are you responsible, at all, for the emissions and risk factors of your car?
By your logic, no, it’s the fault of the city planners and the auto manufacturers. You have zero blame or responsibility in the matter.
All I’m saying is that you DO have responsibility in the choices you make. Your choices are potentially limited, but you own the results of your actions.
This is just blame-shifting propaganda for the uneducated. We’ve known for years that “just 100 companies are source of over 70% of emissions”:
“Groundbreaking ‘Carbon Majors’ research finds 100 active fossil fuel producers including ExxonMobil, Shell, BHP Billiton and Gazprom are linked to 71% of industrial greenhouse gas emissions since 1988.”
This assumes they just make product and shove it back into the ground.
We use it. Our parents used it.
The only thing they’re guilty of is getting in the way of new development to greener tech, which is a massive thing, don’t get me wrong. Edit by get in the way I mean lobby to mask impacts and block changes, which is fucking terrible.
The EPA and NASA also knew about climate change but our governments were corrupt and lobbied by these guys. THAT is a problem.
But the fact that oil was processed and consumed is not a corporation’s fault, they produced it for customers. THAT PART ALONE is our fault.
If you use fuel, plastic etc, you’re part of the problem.
If you corrupt government and hinder progress you’re the source of the problem.
One is much worse than the other. EDIT BEING THE SOURCE IS WORSE! consumers have skin in the game but corrupt government officials (who engaged with lobbyists are worse)
Yeah great, the consumer has so much power over industry practices and standards
I clearly discussed that.
No, they don’t. They only have responsibility for their consumption.
Further, they only have responsibility for the consumption AND the damage that consumption causes, WHEN THAT INFO ISNT OBSCURED FROM THEM. These corps, and corrupt government hid that info in the name of profits.
I still don’t have access to good (more than 100Mbps) reliable internet service and as a consumer can do nothing to change that, how am I supposed to be able to expect a new electric vehicle fast charger in my area to cut back my emissions? Also that where I live I have no access to public transit, and am forced to drive everywhere.
I didn’t say you had much control, or are.the root of the problem. But all of us have skin in the game when we consume products that cause global warming.
Things like eating beef, using gas, using plastic products. I’m not saying you have an alternative, but nobody other than you is using the gas that you’re using.
The separate, bigger part of the equation is the corruption.
But if you admit that there are no alternatives then one more step down the chain would be to blame, ie the companies producing, and not providing alternatives… You’re so close and keep making points against what you then say is your conclusion.
I don’t entirely disagree. I’m not going to completely deny consumer responsibility, but I think it’s important to hold corporations much more accountable. My reasons are: sabotaging alternatives (this is huge), tons corporate money in politics (actively preventing change even if people want it), climate denial and false research (lying), and making sure everyone but themselves gets blamed when problems can no longer be hidden.
In the case of manufacturing, when environmental controls are implemented the corporations affected often just ship the work abroad. So even if citizens manage to make change in their own country the corporations just export the damage. You may say that people could just stop buying, and there is that aspect of consumer responsibility I’ve acknowledged. However, when all the options are bad it’s not realistic to say everyone should have forgone all cars, phones, or electricity produced by fossil fuels.
The general population has been deliberately denied information and agency to enact change. This latest statement in OP’s article is just a continuation of decades of corporate greed over truth and the environment.
Woah that was not my conclusion!
Edited to clarify.
Edit I figured it was clear that systemic corruption was worse than consumer usage but I guess not
My bad. Sometimes it’s hard to tell when you’re having a discussion via message board because nuance can get lost. I’ll edit that assumption out. Sounds like we’re on the same side.
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I’m sorry you had trouble reading the parts where I clearly pointed out corruption and lobbying are the reasons, the source of the issue.
I hope you get to a point where you accept your externalities.
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Yeah, I heckin specified that. Good luck on developing responsibility and not just dealing with your problems but throwing them over the fence and name-calling.
Pretty immature behavior, but I know it comes from frustration of not being in control.
Here’s one to help you: If you drive a large car, which are known to be very dangerous to pedestrians, and emit a lot of pollutants, are you responsible, at all, for the emissions and risk factors of your car?
By your logic, no, it’s the fault of the city planners and the auto manufacturers. You have zero blame or responsibility in the matter.
All I’m saying is that you DO have responsibility in the choices you make. Your choices are potentially limited, but you own the results of your actions.
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Yeah, you don’t know the rules. You aren’t being civil.
Im not gonna keep fighting with you and get banned. They deleted my comments too so not sure what weaponization you’re referring to.
You missed the point entirely and were rude while you did it.