Ruh roh, looks like I’m a rUsSiAn BoT because I criticized our genocidal president ¯\_(⊙︿⊙)_/¯
Arming a genocidal regime and imprisoning and murdering innocent refugees at the southern border is just normal after all, and I just need to be rEaLiStIc becuase it’s so hard simply not to commit multiple human rights violations
I believe so called democracies around the world are a farce but the US’ “democracy” is so shameless about how they do it that Im surprised most people doesnt seem to realize.
It’s a horrible system, yeah. When people tell me I “have no choice” but to vote for a candidate like Biden, I don’t think they have a shred of self awareness. They’re basically admitting that this is a blatantly undemocratic system. I start to think that they just don’t really care about using people like immigrants or Palestinians as political pawns, and then it makes me feel like maybe the entire human race is simply awful.
I understand the logic that not voting might give the presidency to Trump but its also a good way to expose the falacy of our “democracies”. The less participation there is the harder it gets to keep the lie.
Theres a reason why Australia made voting compulsory.
Another clever solution, but where’s the log? I don’t see one there, and the trolley is too close for you to have time to go off to find one.
What even is the log in this scenario, another insurrection? Not voting isn’t throwing a log, it’s just not pulling the lever.
What makes you think the accelerationist position of “exposing the fallacy” would actually make anything better? It’s very possible, I’d argue probable, that it would just make a lasting fascist regime more likely. What reason do you have to believe that a more transparent lie would be enough to make people actual do anything different?
Personally, I don’t think that’s a gamble with very favorable odds.
What even is the log in this scenario, another insurrection? Not voting isn’t throwing a log, it’s just not pulling the lever.
As I see it, the lever is the choice being made, in this case dem. or rep., the tracks are the electoral system and the log is the third option they dont want us to give and have taught us it doesnt exist.
In a true democracy we should be able to say “we dont like options given, do better” but those voices are conveniently ignored.
What makes you think the accelerationist position of “exposing the fallacy” would actually make anything better?
The first step in demanding the true is to realize you’ve been lied to. If everyone is voting it must mean that they agree the system works because people dont usually waste time in tasks that they believe are fruitless. I believe people will realize something is wrong with their “democracy” when its minorities choosing for everyone else and start demanding true democracy.
Also, the fact that they, the rulling class, seems to be afraid of it. As I mentioned before, australia making vote compulsory when the numbers were geting “too low for comfort” is a good example.
Personally, I don’t think that’s a gamble with very favorable odds.
Its possible it could backfire, yes. And, as I said in another comment, right now wouldnt be the best time to do it. Vote, but be aware that the system you participate in is just mitigating the symptoms of a desease and not treating it. Pretending otherwise is not a good gamble either.
Actions must be taken to change it. An organized effort to sabotage the elections by not voting could be one option.
And you forget the fact that even if most people votes theres a chance trump will still win. Even if biden gets the popular vote, just like it happened in 2016. Who will you blame then?
The way these types of conversations can get so heated is an indicator that people is still not placing the blame where it should be. People need to be shown the truth, which is hard when our whole lives we’ve been “educated” to believe a lie, and again, I think electoral sabotage is a good attempt at that.
In any nation with first past the post elections, like the United States, Leftists have exactly one rational voting strategy:
Step 1. Identify the two front-runner parties, and determine which of the two is further left relative to the other.
Step 2. Vote for that party in every single election (don’t forget midterms and local elections). Encourage everyone you know to do the same.
Step 3. Once the (relative) left party has an overwhelming majority (over 2/3) and the relative right party becomes vanishingly irrelevant (under 1/3), then split the (relative) left party into its own relative left and right.
Step 4. Repeat steps 1-3 with these new front-runner parties.
Step 5. Iterate step 4 until your relative left party passes election reform such that elections are no longer susceptible to Duverger’s Law.
Certainly try to push for reform within the relative left party between elections and during primaries, but at the ballot box the above is the only rational strategy. Voting third party, or refusing to vote the lesser evil, is not a rational strategy.
Oh no, the left didn’t vote! What a shame! Now we won’t have any tasty ballots to snack on. Oh well, I guess we’d better start drifting left and further away from the interests of the people who actually elected us. Gee, I was really hoping the people whose views fundamentally oppose our own were going to vote. Mr Trump, we’d better stop suppressing black people’s votes right away, cause the left isn’t voting and we think that’s bad.
The less participation there is the harder it gets to keep the lie.
This is just wildly naive. The less participation the easier you are to manage. Why do you think the GOP goes so hard on voter suppression and gerrymandering?
Their voter suppression is meant to stop from voting a very specific and relative small group of people not comparable to what an organized sabotage of the elections would be.
Gerrymandering is meant to dilute the vote of those who are already voting in favour of one party and its an example of how fallacious your democracy is.
I already admitted that I might be wrong, but something must be done to change this and believing you can fix a rigged game by playing it, is also naive.
Ruh roh, looks like I’m a rUsSiAn BoT because I criticized our genocidal president ¯\_(⊙︿⊙)_/¯
Arming a genocidal regime and imprisoning and murdering innocent refugees at the southern border is just normal after all, and I just need to be rEaLiStIc becuase it’s so hard simply not to commit multiple human rights violations
Definitely, and what’s your thought on the guys from cpac saying they want to end democracy and jan 6th was a good first try?
Those present and agreeing including members of the last cabinet.
It’s all the same.
End which democracy? We don’t have a democracy if my only choice is deciding between two genocidal maniacs
And the electoral college can overrule your vote.
I believe so called democracies around the world are a farce but the US’ “democracy” is so shameless about how they do it that Im surprised most people doesnt seem to realize.
It’s a horrible system, yeah. When people tell me I “have no choice” but to vote for a candidate like Biden, I don’t think they have a shred of self awareness. They’re basically admitting that this is a blatantly undemocratic system. I start to think that they just don’t really care about using people like immigrants or Palestinians as political pawns, and then it makes me feel like maybe the entire human race is simply awful.
Quick question: would you pull the lever?
Burn the trolley and rip up the tracks
Very clever, how do you plan to do that in the 2 seconds before the trolley passes?
Throw a log at the tracks.
I understand the logic that not voting might give the presidency to Trump but its also a good way to expose the falacy of our “democracies”. The less participation there is the harder it gets to keep the lie.
Theres a reason why Australia made voting compulsory.
Another clever solution, but where’s the log? I don’t see one there, and the trolley is too close for you to have time to go off to find one.
What even is the log in this scenario, another insurrection? Not voting isn’t throwing a log, it’s just not pulling the lever.
What makes you think the accelerationist position of “exposing the fallacy” would actually make anything better? It’s very possible, I’d argue probable, that it would just make a lasting fascist regime more likely. What reason do you have to believe that a more transparent lie would be enough to make people actual do anything different?
Personally, I don’t think that’s a gamble with very favorable odds.
Fixed it
As I see it, the lever is the choice being made, in this case dem. or rep., the tracks are the electoral system and the log is the third option they dont want us to give and have taught us it doesnt exist.
In a true democracy we should be able to say “we dont like options given, do better” but those voices are conveniently ignored.
The first step in demanding the true is to realize you’ve been lied to. If everyone is voting it must mean that they agree the system works because people dont usually waste time in tasks that they believe are fruitless. I believe people will realize something is wrong with their “democracy” when its minorities choosing for everyone else and start demanding true democracy.
Also, the fact that they, the rulling class, seems to be afraid of it. As I mentioned before, australia making vote compulsory when the numbers were geting “too low for comfort” is a good example.
Its possible it could backfire, yes. And, as I said in another comment, right now wouldnt be the best time to do it. Vote, but be aware that the system you participate in is just mitigating the symptoms of a desease and not treating it. Pretending otherwise is not a good gamble either.
Actions must be taken to change it. An organized effort to sabotage the elections by not voting could be one option.
And you forget the fact that even if most people votes theres a chance trump will still win. Even if biden gets the popular vote, just like it happened in 2016. Who will you blame then?
The way these types of conversations can get so heated is an indicator that people is still not placing the blame where it should be. People need to be shown the truth, which is hard when our whole lives we’ve been “educated” to believe a lie, and again, I think electoral sabotage is a good attempt at that.
In any nation with first past the post elections, like the United States, Leftists have exactly one rational voting strategy:
Step 1. Identify the two front-runner parties, and determine which of the two is further left relative to the other.
Step 2. Vote for that party in every single election (don’t forget midterms and local elections). Encourage everyone you know to do the same.
Step 3. Once the (relative) left party has an overwhelming majority (over 2/3) and the relative right party becomes vanishingly irrelevant (under 1/3), then split the (relative) left party into its own relative left and right.
Step 4. Repeat steps 1-3 with these new front-runner parties.
Step 5. Iterate step 4 until your relative left party passes election reform such that elections are no longer susceptible to Duverger’s Law.
Certainly try to push for reform within the relative left party between elections and during primaries, but at the ballot box the above is the only rational strategy. Voting third party, or refusing to vote the lesser evil, is not a rational strategy.
Conservatives in the DNC and GOP next year:
This is just wildly naive. The less participation the easier you are to manage. Why do you think the GOP goes so hard on voter suppression and gerrymandering?
Their voter suppression is meant to stop from voting a very specific and relative small group of people not comparable to what an organized sabotage of the elections would be.
Gerrymandering is meant to dilute the vote of those who are already voting in favour of one party and its an example of how fallacious your democracy is.
I already admitted that I might be wrong, but something must be done to change this and believing you can fix a rigged game by playing it, is also naive.