• demesisx
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    1 year ago

    I can’t believe how many shitlibs there are in here, using this opportunity to guilt people with an actual conscience into voting for this piece of shit as if he has some sort of moral high ground.

    What is the lesser evil when both the DNC and the GOP work directly for the exact same military industrial complex?

    The real villain here is the system that makes any party outside of the two party system completely irrelevant: first-past-the-post.

    We have two Republican parties. One of them just so happens to pretend better at being inclusive…but they secretly also wish that the poor could be burned to fuel their mega-yachts.

    • thilo@lemmy.ml
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      1 year ago

      This is nonsense. MAGA is a fascist movement. Don’t let both being neo-liberal blind you.

      • cosecantphi [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        1 year ago

        And yet the United States continues to slide into fascism despite having elected Biden. What horrific Trump era policies did the Democrats even bother to repeal after they won in 2020 and held both the senate and the house?

        They are still funding the construction of border wall segments. They never repealed the Republican tax cuts. They have done nothing about the concentration camps on the southern border for fuck’s sake. They never codified Roe v. Wade, we literally lost the right to abortions while Biden was in office. They could have stacked the supreme court but they didn’t.

        The Democrats and the Republicans form an obfuscated one party system in the US. Republican leadership aggressively ramps up the oppression of marginalized people, then Democratic leadership does nothing to restore our rights nor proactively prevent the same thing from happening again. Instead they just use their time in office to suck all of the energy out of people’s movements that could actually effect change.

        And much more importantly than all of that, Republicans and Democrats are virtually identically evil when it comes to foreign policy. When the US is dropping bombs on you and destroying your country, you’ll tend not to care whether it was a Red MAGA or Blue MAGA administration pulling the trigger.

        In some specific cases it might be worthwhile to vote for Democrats in local elections where there exists much more leeway for politicians to stray from the party line, but voting for them in national elections is just lending your voice to legitimizing their bullshit good cop/bad cop routine they play with the Republicans.

        • demesisx
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          1 year ago

          Hear hear!!! My sentiments exactly! Thanks for putting it into words better than I could have.

        • thilo@lemmy.ml
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          1 year ago

          Yes, that is a feature of democratic systems. Parties want to get voted in. So they bend their programs to achieve that goal. I live in Germany and here all parties are leaning further and further to the right, since the AfD (nationalist-conservative, some party members Neo-nazi) party is gaining in almost every poll.

      • demesisx
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        1 year ago

        Fascism is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement, characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.

        To me, it sounds a whole lot like both Biden AND Trump can be considered fascists….especially with this idea of secret military aid to Israel that I’m reacting to here.

        • OurToothbrush@lemmy.mlM
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          1 year ago

          Looking at it from an economic definition perspective though Biden represents the financial bourgeoisie and Trump represents more industrial bourgeoisie

          • demesisx
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            1 year ago

            I’d actually argue that Trump comes from the real estate bourgeoisie but I agree on the Biden characterization. Biden never saw an MBNA donor contribution that he didn’t love (like in 2008 when he sold all future generations out for a $250,000 payout from MBNA).

            I just don’t see how real estate wealth translates to industry. In general, many of Trump’s areas don’t fully align with the Republican establishment who, in my observation, generally are from real estate, energy, and industry as you mentioned.

            Thinking about it more, it seems like real estate has a lot of overlap in both parties.

            • GarbageShoot [he/him]@hexbear.net
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              1 year ago

              Trump obviously comes from real estate, but his current money-making on a direct level is decidedly media-driven. The question is who gives him money and who benefits from his policy, and I think the answer is that he has a relatively larger amount of support from the petite bourgeois.

              • demesisx
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                1 year ago

                Yeah that’s true. They found a cash cow in him, though I’d still consider him an outsider (especially after his political capital has been used up).

          • BurgerPunk [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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            1 year ago

            It is a fact that the economic policies of Nazi Germany were mass privatization and public-private partnerships, both of which are the hallmarks of neoliberal policy. Your denial of this is factless. Not that it matters to you, because you don’t care about facts. You’re just an empty headed smuglord with Facts and Logic™ aesthetics

      • Omega_Haxors@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        Both are fascist, the only difference is where the fascism is pointed. That’s why you’ll see a lot of fake leftists support Biden, because they don’t care about the world all they care about are themselves.

    • GreatWhiteNope [she/her]@hexbear.net
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      1 year ago

      If they’re both equally evil internationally and mostly equally evil domestically, am I allowed to vote for who is less likely to remove more human rights from women and trans people?

      I would never tell anyone that they should vote, I understand people’s reasons for not doing it. Selfishly, I’m going to give myself the best chance of having access to life saving health care until I’m no longer of child bearing age.

      • demesisx
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        1 year ago

        Of course! I’m just standing up to speak my mind. We all are allowed to vote exactly as we see fit. I live in MA where I have the opportunity to vote with my conscience, but in a place like AL, SC, or KY, my strategy wouldn’t be helpful to those groups of people.

        The two party system makes democracy in the US an absolute sham.

        • GreatWhiteNope [she/her]@hexbear.net
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          1 year ago

          If Hitler had actually held an election and the only options were him or a Strasser party, I don’t think it would be immoral to vote for the Strassers. But I also don’t think it would be a moral obligation if you had no reason to believe they would stop the Holocaust.

          • GarbageShoot [he/him]@hexbear.net
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            1 year ago

            A vote for Hindenburg was indeed a vote for Hitler, so I think the moral is that caping for a lesser evil instead of trying to build good (and those two things are normally opposed) is not a constructive behavior. I couldn’t give less of a shit who you personally vote for, that’s the consumer-lifestyle version of political engagement. I do care somewhat what you advocate for, because promoting the lesser evil is still promoting evil over good (using the overly moralistic phrasing of the adage).

            Withholding support from Nazis (on any substantial level) is plainly the better option if you want to not need to keep choosing between two Nazis.

            • GreatWhiteNope [she/her]@hexbear.net
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              1 year ago

              The 1932 election had a communist option, it’s unlikely that there will be one on my ballot.

              We’re not going to overthrow fascism in America at the voting booth. I’m not trying to convince anyone to vote for Biden, that’s his job and he’s not doing it very well. I’m also not going to shame anyone for doing something easy like voting in the hopes that it makes them a tiny bit safer.

              I would shame someone if they thought that voting democrat is a step towards bringing about positive change or parroted some bullshit about how we can get more concessions from Democrats than Republicans. If voting is the extent of your political engagement, you aren’t opposing fascism.

            • Karyoplasma@discuss.tchncs.de
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              1 year ago

              A vote for Hindenburg was indeed a vote for Hitler

              How so? Hindenburg was Hitler’s biggest political adversary and refused to pronounce Hitler chancellor until 2 consecutive elections failed.

      • demesisx
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        1 year ago

        probably not now that I actually think about it. Let’s change that to “burn poor people to fuel their megayachts”.

          • Omega_Haxors@lemmy.ml
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            1 year ago

            Calling out libshit isn’t spewing hate and vitriol, thin-skinned cracker. If you want to be passively fascist without any pushback, go back to reddit. Or better yet, take this as an opportunity to grow as a person and realize that your world view is not only unpopular, it’s also evil.

            You don’t get to suppress ideas that threaten your ego, that’s not how things work here.

      • demesisx
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        1 year ago

        Oh no! I mean poopoo libs for those that can’t handle a little reality on neoliberalism. Ps. I’m not name calling. I’m making a point. BrooklynDad and Charlotte Clymer are examples of DNC shitlib’s from Twitter that did the exact same two party guilt trip.

          • demesisx
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            1 year ago

            Your neoliberalism brings to Lemmy the worst toxicity from Twitter. Hold your head in shame.

            I had missed being gaslighted by mature adults that also just so happened to be on the Progressive Policy Institute’s astroturfing payroll about being a horrible piece of shit if I didn’t hold my nose and vote for the lesser of two evils that screw their constituents in exactly the same way as the “bad guys” but do it with a smile. Go tell David Brock to transfer you to a new department.

              • demesisx
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                1 year ago

                Did you forget that I can see your comment history? I’m going to do the right thing and block you once you read this. Please try to keep in mind that you are a supposed leftist who likes to shame other leftists who aren’t willing to compromise like you are. If you consider me toxic for pointing that out, maybe go touch some grass and sign off for a while.

                  • demesisx
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                    1 year ago

                    Doesn’t it feel weird when someone tells you how they think you should act!?!?!? 🤣

      • mrnotoriousman@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        You can instantly spot the pro-fascist pro-Russia tankies by this single word. And the comments just ooze peak toxicity while trying to act like some moral authority. They literally can’t help themselves but call names because I’m pretty sure 99% of them are actually children

        • demesisx
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          1 year ago

          I’m a tankie!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

          🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

          If you care about nuance, I’m a libertarian socialist/anarcho syndicalist (Chomsky-ite) who thinks that democratic socialism MIGHT POSSIBLY lead to a more just society than the corruption extravaganza that we have. Sue me if I don’t fit the tech bro libertarian Jordan Peterson fanboi or fake leftist IT guy archetype that comprises the rest of the Lemmy population.

          • Omega_Haxors@lemmy.ml
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            1 year ago

            Nuance nonces on their way to defend nazi war criminals.

            Sorry, it’s the rules. I have to post that everyone someone uses that word.