The Pennsylvania Democrat recalled his time serving as a Hillary Clinton surrogate in 2016, even after he supported Bernie Sanders in the primary.

  • banneryear1868@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    17
    arrow-down
    18
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    Perfect summary of how fucked the two party system and partisan identity in the US is. “Oh you don’t want to get behind a party that supports the Palestinian genocide? Trump lover!” You basically have a moderate rainbow capitalist center right party, and a fashy culture war right party, they have the same donors and corrupt capital directing their policies though. The vote is like picking the aesthetic you want to see things degrade under.

    Biden taking the L for pulling out of Afghanistan was the best thing he’s done. Obama and Trump didn’t want it and he finally went though with it.

    • fubo@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      39
      arrow-down
      8
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      These two things can be true at the same time:

      1. The two-party system is structurally bad for the country. We really, really need ranked-choice or approval voting, and have needed them for a long time.
      2. If you are a voter in a contested (“purple”) state and don’t vote for Biden, you will be thereby supporting the election of a fascist candidate, which will make you a material supporter of fascism.

      Feel free to vote for West if you live in, say, California. But in a contested state, a vote for West is a vote for Trump (or his replacement as Führer).

      There is an actual, material difference between the center-right big-business party (the Democrats) and the fascist party. If you don’t believe me, go ask a gay schoolteacher from Florida.

    • Zaktor@sopuli.xyz
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      18
      arrow-down
      6
      ·
      1 year ago

      You basically have a moderate rainbow capitalist center right party, and a fashy culture war right party, they have the same donors and corrupt capital directing their policies though.

      Holy fuck is this insane. While it was still dumb, complaining about lack of differentiation between neoliberalism with social conservative tendencies and neoliberalism with socially liberal tendencies could at least masquerade as a cogent argument, but “fashy culture war” isn’t just another stylistic draping on neoliberalism, it’s storming school boards, skinheads marching through cities, and federally directed jackboots kidnapping protesters.

      • banneryear1868@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        4
        arrow-down
        14
        ·
        1 year ago

        That’s all happening now while Biden is in office though, and the police work for the state. Weapons are also being sold to fascists and extremists who repress moderates all over the world. The difference is under neoliberalism domestically, as long as people are equally represented, and the visible oppression is externalized, the structure is strengthened and remains. The Republican model says some deserve to be worse off based on their identity, which is in practice an opportunity for exploitation of all, it’s a way to blame systemic stresses on an internalized other. The stresses remain in either case and the system continues to degrade.

        Neoliberalism has already had its crisis and essentially died, in the sense that it’s not believed in anymore but still guides institutions.

        • Zaktor@sopuli.xyz
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          13
          arrow-down
          3
          ·
          1 year ago

          Where are the DHS (or other federal agents) kidnapping protesters? They didn’t just randomly decide to show up in Portland and they weren’t just randomly chosen from among available federal forces. They were sent there by Trump because they were a young organization with the least inertia to resist the fascist turn.

          As to the other two, I suppose it’s true it’s still happening, no one solved the problem of evil, but they aren’t being called “fine people” and sheltered by the head of the executive branch. Zero chance the Proud Boys go to prison under a fascist president and more than likely they will be pardoned (and given a green light) if that happens. The idea that a fascist president doesn’t make fascism markedly worse is insanity.

          All the flowery words about international relations are just avoiding answering the question of actual fascism, while also basically ignoring that fascist leaders were rising at the same time and supporting each other. What bullshit fake leftism to just hand wave away the rise of fascism, both at home and abroad.

          • banneryear1868@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            3
            arrow-down
            9
            ·
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            Feds are notorious for harassing and threatening effective protestors, and the police and military in the US are full of organized fascists already, that’s just getting worse in any partisan scenario. International relations is actual fascism, because it’s all about protecting the interests of private US companies who do business in countries with less regulations and labor standards, and forcing those countries to remain friendly to US interests in this manner. So the oppression resulting from this system is externalized and hidden from the American collective conscious which is more involved with a culture war that doesn’t really change the status quo system but gives it moral justification and context. Results are incidents like Coca Cola hiring death squads in Columbia to harass and murder labor organizers, or just exploiting entire workforces. The military industrial complex side of this is basically death for any political organizations left of center in any country the US has interests in, the story of the last half century. Pertinent example, Biden pulling out of Afghanistan ended decades of involvement that basically started with providing insane amounts of weapons to Mujahideen Islam extremists and warlords which culminated in 9/11. Iran is the exception but the US is materially very friendly to repressive Islamic states for these economic reasons, those states aren’t inclusive by any stretch of the imagination and actually murder so-called sexual deviants. As long as it’s not happening in the US neoliberal Democrat supporters can feel like their hands are clean of fascism the system they support inflicts. So I would flip around that last paragraph and say this is a material reality entirely avoided by US Democrat progressives.

    • Zink@programming.dev
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      3
      ·
      1 year ago

      It helps to think of it in pragmatic terms of what your vote does, versus whether or not you fully support X or Y. It is undeniable that given the stupid electoral system we were born into, that voting third party effectively supports whichever mainstream candidate you don’t want to win.

      All the rest of the time, whether in primaries or public forums like this, you argue and vote for what/who you really want.

      But once you hit the general election, it is essentially cast in stone that either the R or D candidate will win.

      We need ranked choice voting so that candidates care about what the people really want, versus just getting more votes than one specific other person.

      • banneryear1868@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        voting third party effectively supports whichever mainstream candidate you don’t want to win.

        What if you don’t want either to win and see the trend of both parties turning more to the right since Reagan and locked in a death spiral. Corporate tax rates are as low as ever, both parties support the military industrial complex and police state, both support the Palestinian genocide, neither party wants to get rid of Citizens United and Super PACs (regulated less than charities) now control and appropriate political action for corporate interests, neither party supports public healthcare. Like yeah the degradation may happen slower under Democrat but they haven’t shown signs of turning their backs against the corporate interests ruining the country/world.

        • Zink@programming.dev
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          1 year ago

          If you don’t want either one to win, there is no way for you to legally make that happen.

          So if you accept that is true, and you have a preference among the two parties, that is where pragmatism suggests voting against the greater evil.

          But if you honestly have little to no preference, then you won’t care about the so-called consequences of voting third party, and can do whatever.

          I mean obviously you can always do whatever you want. This is just the game theory you’re thinking that means we need to change our voting system before the two-party lock-in would even start to loosen.

          • banneryear1868@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            Pragmatism would suggest I spend my efforts being politically active in other ways rather than dedicate it to a bipartisan death spiral. I’m active on the labor, municipal, and environmental front, and none of it is online.

            • Zink@programming.dev
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              1 year ago

              That sounds awesome!

              I was just talking about the vote decision in the booth though. Actually helping change along is arguably even more important than voting in the first place, because each individual involved has a larger effect, and one that they care about much more than choosing the lesser evil.